According to the Daily Mining Gazette today, Mike Steber, principal of Washington Middle School in Calumet, is a total idiot. He's allowing his sixth graders to play soldier in Sidnaw when they should be in class: Sixth graders learn fitness, military skills.
Across the field, Cadet Rebecca Boyce leads a group of marchers into a rhythmic chant. "I want to hurt someone! I want to kill someone!" her diminutive ranks shout at full decibels. Boyce approves. "You guys are naturals," she says.
Across the field, Cadet Rebecca Boyce leads a group of marchers into a rhythmic chant. "I want to hurt someone! I want to kill someone!" her diminutive ranks shout at full decibels.
Boyce approves. "You guys are naturals," she says.
Where are the parents of these kids? They can't all be tobacco-chawing, low-life nincompoops. Or can they?
Thanks to the DMG and reporter Jane Nordberg for exposing this disgrace to the community! Mike Steber, you should look for a new job more suited to your talents, whatever those might be.
While we welcome the expression of all viewpoints on these pages, let's make sure that we don't let our passions get away from us. We're all neighbors here.
If Mr. Steber or any of the parents involved with the issue BeenThere brought up care to comment, we'd appreciate hearing their side of it too.
The liberal propaganda put out by the DMG sucked you people in again. You should know enough not to get fooled by that rag. The media in this country constantly undercuts our military, the only force that keeps us free from the heathen enemies who seek to destroy us. Shame on the DMG and shame on you for spreading their propaganda!
Our heathen enemies struck the first blow on 9/11, but you liberals and the liberal news media just don't seem to get that. Or you want them to win. One or the other.
Even 6th graders need to know about the world they live in, and they might be on the front lines in a few years. They should know what they're getting into. For your information, there is nothing unChristian about being a soldier, as you'd know if you read your Bible:
Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before. Christ, the royal Master, leads against the foe; forward into battle see his banners go! Onward, Christian soldiers, marching as to war, with the cross of Jesus going on before.
You can't be serious about the DMG being a liberal paper! It's a total mouthpiece for the right-wing establishment, for Bush, for attacking other countries, for pumping up the rich at the expense of the poor! There's no way that the DMG would go out of its way to print untrue propaganda against the military.
Not just liberals, but Bush supporters too, comprehend that it goes way over the line to teach 6th graders to march around saying "I want to kill someone!"
By the way, the song you posted is not from the bible. I guarantee that if Jesus were alive today he would not sing those words. And if you really knew your bible, you'd realize that.
The DMG reported today on the flap caused by its report Thursday of the inappropriate activities sponsored by Washinton Middle School of Calumet for its 6th graders: Nesbit program sparks debate. In addition to the apology of the Lt. Colonel in charge of ROTC at MTU, the longer story printed in the newspaper reported the surprise and regret of Mike Steber, principal of the school, who said he took lots of heat after the report. The basic facts of the matter were not disputed, however:
Lt. Col. Patrick Slowey, who oversees MTU's U.S. Army ROTC program, said he "deeply regretted what occurred" at the camp on Wednesday. "I don't doubt that what I read was accurate," he said. "My heartache is that this incident of poor judgment reflects poorly on an entire program."
Lt. Col. Patrick Slowey, who oversees MTU's U.S. Army ROTC program, said he "deeply regretted what occurred" at the camp on Wednesday.
"I don't doubt that what I read was accurate," he said. "My heartache is that this incident of poor judgment reflects poorly on an entire program."
The longer article made clear that both Mike Steber and Patrick Slowey absolve themselves of responsibility for what happened on the ground that they did not know what was going on under their commands. I find that appalling. It's every leader's job to know what goes on under his or her command. Nevertheless, failure of leadership is symptomatic of a serious problem in America today, in government, corporations, educational institutions, the armed forces, and charitable organizations.
Lots of people want the power of leadership, the prestige of leadership, the perquisites of leadership, and the paychecks of leadership. Few want to perform the duties of leadership nor to accept the responsibilities of leadership. This starts with our current president of the United States and continues right down the line.
As citizens, we need to begin demanding accountability from all of our leaders. The Camp Nesbit incident gives us a good place to start.
It looks like the DMG only pursued the story further because folks raised such a stink about what happened. Naturally the DMG tossed only softball questions at the people who screwed up. This place could really use some hard-hitting journalism!
Just watch, this will all blow over and nothing will be done. Except for one thing--they'll make damn sure no reporters see what they're up to in the future.
On Saturday the DMG published a representative letter from Daniel Wisti expressing the community's outrage over the Camp Nesbit disgrace. The DMG also published an editorial about the matter: Tech ROTC program badly misses mark. The editorial asked some basic questions:
Were parents notified beforehand? Were children allowed to not participate [sic] without censure? Who is responsible for this disaster?
Were parents notified beforehand?
Were children allowed to not participate [sic] without censure?
Who is responsible for this disaster?
But the DMG is a newspaper with reporters who are trained to ask such questions, find the answers, and inform readers. Why ask those questions rhetorically in an editorial instead of showing some initiative and digging out the answers for us? Is the DMG a real newspaper or a puff rag?
Come on, DMG, get out there and do your job!
The DMG has printed more letters to the editor regarding the "I want to kill" camp:
From Mary and Bill Bausano, Oxford, Ohio From Glenna Irwin, Jacobsville
From Mary and Bill Bausano, Oxford, Ohio
From Glenna Irwin, Jacobsville
No answers yet, though, to the rhetorical questions the DMG asked editorially on Saturday.
When I was young, we never worried about violent crime in the Keweenaw. Sadly, big-city crime is coming our way more and more: Man stabbed in Wal-Mart parking lot: "An unknown man slashed Houghton resident Arnold Landstrom's throat while he was in his car in the Wal-Mart parking lot shortly before 2:45 p.m."
How horrifying! What's happened to our way of life?
We are lucky to have people like Shirley Frantii to tell it like it is. Here is a link to her letter to editor of the DMG: http://www.mininggazette.com/letters/story/104202004_let02-l1004.asp.
All good, but especially this,
"All these facts led us to invade Iraq. President Bush, a man of integrity, and a born-again Christian, cannot take the blame for this war because it isn't his war."
Amen
Hallelujah!
Praise Jesus!
By the Light of the Silvery Crescent Moon...
Allah's On Board:
http://hometown.aol.com/martenharbor/hartclog2.doc
http://hometown.aol.com/martenharbor/hartclog2.pdf
Hang in there, Rock!
Coppernickus
Went to pick up a prescription and found the Medicine Shoppe closed temporarily. Argh. Got back and found this article in the online DMG--State shuts down Medicine Shoppe.
"The suspension is a result of audits of controlled substances that revealed significant shortages of OxyContin, Percocet and Percodan, and the Medicine Shoppe's failure to report to the MDCH the loss of those substances as required by the Public Health Code."
This is real bad news and I hope it's not like it looks.
Voters were pretty smart in two local elections: Newcomers take Hancock council race. In Hancock, drunk driver Jim Martin lost his seat and his mayor job. In Torch Lake township, Marlene Perrault won out over the liar who ran against her, Denise Lepisto.
Lepisto ran a filthy campaign and on the Saturday before the election she broke the law by putting flyers filled with smears in mailboxes without using postage. If Lepisto had won out over outspoken but honest Perrault, Peggy Lanctot would have resigned rather than work in the office with a crooked liar. That would have left the township in a bind. If the DMG was on the ball we'd be reading about all that, IMHO.
L2,
You must have a lot of good in you because you sure don't let it leak out very often. Must you attack children also?
moots
Birch Bark, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to Torch Lake township. Here is something right under your nose that would make a great story for Keweenaw Now, one of Michele Anderson's deep stories. I bet a lot more people would check out this site if she did that. Talk with Marlene and Peggy. Talk with Denise too, and Jim Rheault and his mother. Let Marlene and Peggy give you some names to talk to. I'm not joking, it would be the story of the year.
For years Jim and his mother have been assessing property and running the township. They assess their friends and buddies too low and screw the rest. They have tried to keep the records hidden at the farm to keep anyone from spilling the beans on them. Marlene has been standing up to them and that's why they are trying to get rid of her. Find out why Jim was fired from the bank. Report the whole thing. Watch the cockroaches run for cover. Oh it would be great!
The shooting started when two hunters returning to their rural cabin saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. The platforms or ``tree stands'' allow hunters to see deer without being easily seen themselves. Both of those hunters were wounded and one of them radioed friends at the cabin a quarter-mile away. Other members of their group responded and they also were shot, he said. ``It's absolutely nuts. Why? Over sitting in a tree stand?'' asked Zeigle.
The shooting started when two hunters returning to their rural cabin saw the suspect in one of their hunting platforms in a tree, Sawyer County Chief Deputy Tim Zeigle said. The platforms or ``tree stands'' allow hunters to see deer without being easily seen themselves.
Both of those hunters were wounded and one of them radioed friends at the cabin a quarter-mile away. Other members of their group responded and they also were shot, he said.
``It's absolutely nuts. Why? Over sitting in a tree stand?'' asked Zeigle.
For more from this AP story:
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Hunters-Shot.html?hp&ex=1101186000&en=1327a69bb9bba1e5&ei=5094&partner=homepage
As I mentioned a week or so ago, people die every day for utterly trivial reasons.
I'm getting the same eerie vertigo I recall experiencing as a boy over and over again in the mid 1960's when another foreign war, as they sooner or later always seem to do, found its way violently homeward to take root in American soil.
Running has always been a reliable stress-reliever for me too, Scott.
I've been a regular ground pounder for nearly 30 years, and right now I need my usual 5 mile blow-out in a way I haven't felt for a long long time.
Thanksgiving cheer to you and yours,
CJ
CJ, I'm getting in as much running as I can before its time to switch to winter sports. I didn't run this morning though because of a cold drizzle, the kind I hate to run in. I wonder if the Hmong thing played into the shootings in Wisconsin, one way or another. Former Stockton man arrested in massacre.
Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
Yesterday a signing ceremony heralded the administrations Great Lakes Regional Collaboration initiative: Officials Lay Groundwork for Cleanup of Great Lakes.
Dozens of officials from the United States and Canada signed a declaration on Friday that outlines a comprehensive plan to clean up the Great Lakes and the major waterways that feed them.
A democrat from Chicago, though, voiced objections to the standard Bush tactic of making nice-sounding plans without funding the implementation of those plans.
Representative Rahm Emanuel, a Chicago Democrat who has introduced legislation that would provide $4 billion over five years for essentially the same goals as those in the framework, said the new effort would fail without adequate money. The bill, a bipartisan effort sponsored by more than 100 House members, and a companion Senate bill are languishing in committee. In an interview, Mr. Emanuel criticized Mr. Bush as promising more money for Great Lakes cleanup projects, only to back off in his budget requests. Mr. Emanuel also said that the framework's goals and partners were virtually the same as those in an effort proposed in 2002 by Mr. Leavitt's predecessor, Christie Whitman.
Representative Rahm Emanuel, a Chicago Democrat who has introduced legislation that would provide $4 billion over five years for essentially the same goals as those in the framework, said the new effort would fail without adequate money. The bill, a bipartisan effort sponsored by more than 100 House members, and a companion Senate bill are languishing in committee.
In an interview, Mr. Emanuel criticized Mr. Bush as promising more money for Great Lakes cleanup projects, only to back off in his budget requests. Mr. Emanuel also said that the framework's goals and partners were virtually the same as those in an effort proposed in 2002 by Mr. Leavitt's predecessor, Christie Whitman.
Because of Bush's fiscal irresponsibility, it's not going to be possible to fund any new initiatives without stealing even more money from our children and grandchildren.
When Bush weighs the value of clean water and clean air against more welfare for the rich, he will always side with the rich. As Bush said five years ago, the "haves and have-mores" are "his base."
Been There
I don't like the Wal-Mart expansion either, but it's not going to go away. A meeting was held by local business people in reaction to the announced plans, but no significant opposition developed.
Houghton business people (led by Jack Swift) said they consider Wal-Mart to be a boon to them because it draws customers to Houghton away from the smaller surrounding towns.
It's truly a shame that Houghton allows local business people like the Campionis, who contribute so much to the community, to be hurt by the likes of Wal-Mart.
Some towns fight Wal-Mart, and some even do so successfully, as Charlevoix did this year. Now citizens in down-state Pittsfield Township have taken up the fight: Wal-Mart faces fight in Michigan township over proposed supercenter.
Two months ago, they formed Pittsfield Community First. It has generated 200 letters and 1,000 petition signatures from residents who want Wal-Mart Stores Inc. to stay out of Pittsfield Township. "We are a small, homey town," said member Lisa Bergman. "Wal-Mart will forever change that."
Two months ago, they formed Pittsfield Community First. It has generated 200 letters and 1,000 petition signatures from residents who want Wal-Mart Stores Inc. to stay out of Pittsfield Township.
"We are a small, homey town," said member Lisa Bergman. "Wal-Mart will forever change that."
With the active support of the Houghton business people, though, the Wal-Mart SuperCenter was welcomed with open arms and incentives.
I meant to comment on this article before, but forgot to do so: President Bush's 2006 budget cuts vital funds, adds trillions to debt.
President Bush's 2006 budget is simply irresponsible. It cuts vital funds for health care, homeland security, education, jobs and veterans' programs and adds trillions to our nation's debt over coming years.
Whatever your political view, the only word you could possibly quibble with in the last sentence above is "vital." The cuts are in the President's budget and so are the increases to the debt that President Bush wants to push off onto our children and grandchildren.
You can read Congressman Stupak's list of "vital" funding items that President Bush wants to cut to see if you agree with the congressman's classification. I, personally, do agree that some of the cuts he lists are to programs that are vital to our nation and community.
But whatever spending programs you consider vital, don't you agree that we should be paying our way with our own tax money, rather than piling the bill for our perceived needs onto our children and grandchildren? Surely fiscal responsibility should not be a partisan issue.
TM,
Perhaps some people from the Port Huron area should take a walk around the Houghton Wal-Mart, as well as the substitute wetlands set up in the Houghton stamp sands, to see what they are in for.
Anyone remember Matson's rootbeer stand? It was on the corner of the highway where the mall now stands. Then came Pamida & Big Saver (currently known as Festival Foods) and the small stores and groceries began shutting down. Along came the mall and K-mart. Then came Shopko and Walmart, and Pamida and K-mart disappeared. Soon the whole gray hulk known as the CC mall will be a ruin, as will probably the Big Saver - relics of time like the Quincy mine shaft. Today people almost remember the mall in its youth with a sense of nostalgia. One day we may be remembering Walmart as a quaint store unable to change with the times. What comes around goes around. Maybe Matson's rootbeer stand will be rebuilt on its ruins.
Because it's easier now for people to skip by the incessant annoying commercials on network TV, advertisers with deep pockets are starting to sponsor "entertainment" shows that are actually commercials in disguise. Taking the lead on this? Sears and Wal-Mart: Wal-Mart's New Realm: Reality TV.
Wal-Mart, seeking additional ways to burnish its tarnished image, is turning to a new realm: reality TV. For the first time, Wal-Mart Stores is becoming a major sponsor of a reality television show, by signing a branded-entertainment agreement with ABC for "The Scholar," a summer series that begins a six-week run on Monday night. Wal-Mart will be woven into the plots of episodes of the show, which is centered on a competition among 10 high school seniors from across the country for a grand prize of a full college scholarship, valued at $250,000, covering tuition and expenses.
Wal-Mart, seeking additional ways to burnish its tarnished image, is turning to a new realm: reality TV.
For the first time, Wal-Mart Stores is becoming a major sponsor of a reality television show, by signing a branded-entertainment agreement with ABC for "The Scholar," a summer series that begins a six-week run on Monday night. Wal-Mart will be woven into the plots of episodes of the show, which is centered on a competition among 10 high school seniors from across the country for a grand prize of a full college scholarship, valued at $250,000, covering tuition and expenses.
How long will it be before politicians--and the government itself--follow suit? Stay tuned.
The DMG published a great letter from John Griffith yesterday: Edit missed mark.
To suggest that there is controversy about global warming is like saying there is some confusion about whether the earth is round or flat, or if men actually walked on the moon, or if there really was a Holocaust. While it is true that one can always find the crackpot fringe to make statements contrary to all facts and evidence, such opinions certainly do not deserve recognition in the newspaper. There are not two valid sides to every issue, although there is never a shortage of diverse opinions on any topic.
To suggest that there is controversy about global warming is like saying there is some confusion about whether the earth is round or flat, or if men actually walked on the moon, or if there really was a Holocaust.
While it is true that one can always find the crackpot fringe to make statements contrary to all facts and evidence, such opinions certainly do not deserve recognition in the newspaper. There are not two valid sides to every issue, although there is never a shortage of diverse opinions on any topic.
Every competent adult in the world acknowledges the truth of the points John makes. The carbon dioxide we pour into the atmosphere traps heat--that's a physical reality. None of the crackpots arguing against global warming offers a credible explanation of how he thinks the trapped heat escapes from our atmosphere.
The "me generation" Bush administration and its toadies (national, state, and local) work to suppress the facts because they put their own profits and short-term political gains ahead of the health and safety of our children and grandchildren.
As part of its disinformation campaign against the environment, the Bush administration employs editors to distort scientific reports before they are released: Bush Aide Softened Greenhouse Gas Links to Global Warming.
A White House official who once led the oil industry's fight against limits on greenhouse gases has repeatedly edited government climate reports in ways that play down links between such emissions and global warming, according to internal documents. In handwritten notes on drafts of several reports issued in 2002 and 2003, the official, Philip A. Cooney, removed or adjusted descriptions of climate research that government scientists and their supervisors, including some senior Bush administration officials, had already approved. In many cases, the changes appeared in the final reports.
A White House official who once led the oil industry's fight against limits on greenhouse gases has repeatedly edited government climate reports in ways that play down links between such emissions and global warming, according to internal documents.
In handwritten notes on drafts of several reports issued in 2002 and 2003, the official, Philip A. Cooney, removed or adjusted descriptions of climate research that government scientists and their supervisors, including some senior Bush administration officials, had already approved. In many cases, the changes appeared in the final reports.
In other words, Bush is using tax money--much of it stolen from our children and grandchildren by his irresponsible fiscal policies--to conceal the destruction of the world that our children and grandchildren will eventually inherit. And the corporate media, including our DMG, is willing to assist Bush in doing so.
Well.......I heard through the grapevine that "the good 'ole boys" got their way again tonight. One of "their" guys was elected by the Torch Lake board!! When will this stop?? Looks like they have plenty to hide and preserve for as long as possible but I for one, am tired of it. Can people really be so blind or not care that these people's taxes are SO out of wack and that's the real motivation behind their tactics? They don't give a darn about the Township as a whole. Would love to know what goes on behind the scenes to make sure they get their way. I think we really need to take a good look at this group and find a way to stop it so the Township can be one that is equal to all. I think this new supervisor is just another puppet. He won't/can't stand up to anyone. What's this about the school being shorted close to two teachers salaries??
Glad to see others concerned about this mess. Some of my neighbors voted for the recall thinking that was the way to keep their own taxes low, they think I'm looney for arguing so strongly the other way. One thing they said over and over was that the board was wasting $89,000 on unneeded reassessments and that the assessor they hired is in legal trouble already.
You have to think that people getting unfair tax breaks are the ones dead set agin changes. With the TL records such a big mess, nothing would surprise me. I can't imagine why those being screwed didn't raise a bigger stink about this recall.
I think its time for me and others to attend township meetings every time and make sure the spotlight is on everything that happens. Ignorance might be bliss but it sure makes for bad gummint. I was hoping Michele would report on TL before the election. I'd still like her to do some stories on TL.
In the overall scheme of things, Torch Lake township is a tempest in a teapot. Your troubles give the rest of us something to laugh at.
Seriously, I have every confidence you'll fix it up. In the meantime, when our townships do something stupid, we can console ourselves by thinking, "At least we don't live in Torch Lake."
Yes, the Michigan law regarding recalls is very poor. But no one can force a voter to cast a stupid vote even if the recall election is itself stupid. We always get what we deserve.
Why not work harder to defeat the recall before the voting instead of crying about it afterwards?
Been There.....you must not live in the Keweenaw or follow the Gazette, either by subscription or on-line. Or listen to the radio for that matter! There WAS an extensive campaign to stop the recall. I followed all of this garbage throughout the Spring and Summer. I asked questions, looked for things to back up what was being said etc. etc. I went directly to sources....hear-say wasn't going to do it for me. I looked at both sides. What I see is that the Coalition has some powerful and very influential individuals that will say and do whatever is necessary to get what they want. They resorted to outright lies and pressured people (easily documented), but the residents took the coalition's word as gold. You know the old saying....perception is reality. Well that really held true in this case. People perceived the coalition leaders as being honest and forthright. A little digging shows that is far from the truth. They seem to have more to hide and protect than we ever realized.
I totally disagree with you that people get what they deserve. Totally disagree. But what I do firmly believe is that things happen for a reason. I am sure that will be the case in this situation too. Stay tuned!!
Politics can be a dirty game but I for one am proud that the ladies of Torch Lake didn't succumb to the tactics of the coalition. Seems they made their decision to either resign or to stick to the facts and keep things positive.These gals can keep their heads held high and sleep at night knowing they have nothing to be ashamed of, no regrets!
Let's hope we have all learned a thing or two through this whole mess.
Cooker and Birds Eye,
I don't claim to know a lot about Torch Lake politics. But I certainly do live on the Keweenaw Peninsula year-round, and have read some articles about the Torch Lake situation in the DMG. I don't recall reading that 3 powerful families control Torch Lake politics.
I surmise that the Rheault family is one of those you mean. What are the other two families? And how can people be intimidated by those families when voting is done by secret ballot?
Or do you mean that those families are so powerful that people in Torch Lake township don't dare speak the truth about them even when talking privately with their friends? Are those families so powerful that the DMG and WMPL are both afraid to spill the beans?
How did Jim Rheault lose last year if his family is one of those controlling Torch Lake politics?
On these boards, the subject of Torch Lake did not heat up until after the recall election was over. That's why it struck me that folks fussing about the result were not riled up enough before the election to stop that unfortunate result from happening.
We Get What We Deserve
In my opinion, it's axiomatic that we get the leaders we deserve because we live in a representative democracy. If enough people vote for effective and honest leaders, effective and honest leaders we get.
When we get ineffective and dishonest leadership, it's always because a majority voting coalition forms that comprises two distinct groups of people:
From what you have posted, it seems clear that Torch Lake is in that situation now. But so is our nation as a whole.
The Constant Battle
Those two forces, the crooked and the ignorant, will always be with us to one degree or another. The rest of us get what we deserve when we fail to keep the spotlight trained on the crooked and when we fail to do whatever it takes to lift people around us from their ignorance.
Been There,
You make some very excellent points. I can't speak for Birds Eye or J. Russell but I just found this web site. A group of twelve people worked very hard in the month before the recall vote. They found the "good old boys" had ready-made workers in the Bootjack Fire Dept. and Foundation. The worst part was the lies they published the Sat. before the vote. They were easily provable but it was too late to print the township minutes that were the proof. Strange how the masses will follow lies. The flip-flop of Dube and Cadwell was hard to understand or publish at such a late date. Another obstacle was Elsa Mugford's insisting that the high ground be maintained and that no one repesenting her stoop to the level of the oppostion. It would have been easy to show how both Dube and Cadwell had openly (and in the Gazette) supported Elsa and Cadwell had agreed to do radio commercials for her. Instead of doing that or discussing his change of mind with her, he turned around and did radio ads for the opposition! Dube made the same commercials for the opposition. Neither of those individuals had the courage to tell Elsa or talk to her about their flip flop.
You've named one of the three very powerful families.
Thanks for your ideas. They help.
I'm disgusted that on the eve of the DMG edition featuring a story on the tragic death of its young sports editor, there are posts lambasting the newspaper for slanted and incomplete coverage. This is your local newspaper and Jeff Arnold served his beloved Copper Country well. Lay off for a day. Please. Prayers of healing to his family and the dedicated Gazette staff who have lost a dear friend.
JMatthew,
Everyone I know regrets the loss of the DMG's Jeff Arnold.
In my opinion, the DMG would best honor his memory by taking on the mission of reminding drivers frequently of the importance of wearing seat belts when driving. Perhaps that would avert similar tragedies in the future.
I sure hope the DMG publishes whatever facts they know instead of just admitting that there is "a lot more than meets the eye."
Maybe constant public attention to matters in TL will help clean things up. If that fails we'll have to figure out what to do about it. It's great to know that others out there are just as concerned as I am.
JMatthews, sorry for your loss but I think you overreacted just a bit. No one was talking about sports. Sheesh!
Great Scott and Birds Eye,
Any ideas on how we could organize a group that is interested in exposing the inequities that have existed in Torch Lake Township for years and need to be corrected? Too many residents seem to be afraid to be identified. This fear needs to be addressed. The wrongdoings WILL be uncovered but we need to work together and get things done rather than just talk. "Truth is always the victor."
A couple dozen came to the TL board meeting last night, some skipping dinner as the starting time has been moved to 6 p.m. Tax fairness in taxation was on the minds and tongues of most, and Brian Cadwell said he was interested in fair taxes too. He said that he could not fix what was done wrong 3 or 5 years ago, but that he wants to make it right going forward. We'll see.
It looks like quite a few of us will be watching to make sure.
Great Scott,
Was there any mention of the White City boat launch repair at the Torch Lake township meeting? Have they dropped that issue since the Coalition so successfully dumped Elsa Mugford? That would be a shame since the work is so badly needed and Elsa worked so hard to get the grant. Maybe the "in" group doesn't want it since it was Elsa who did the work? That would be a shame since so many of us go out there to use the park and boat launch. The present board and its behind-the-scenes-manager had better get with it and start working for ALL of us. THE fire dept. and its foundation are great but there are other issues needing attention, too.
So Cadwell SAYS he is interested in fair taxes. But why wouldn't the Supervisor want to go back and correct what CAN be corrected over the last 3-5 years....however you have to go back way further than that to really see when all of the corruption started. I am watching to see how he handles our present tax assessor. I hope Cadwell is supporting him but I have my doubts. Mr. Botto took a beating at the meeting and Cadwell let the speaker go on and on. What's up with that? We finally have an independent assessor in there that has unveiled the wrong doings/unequal taxation that has gone on for over 20 years under the past two assessors. People want fair taxation but those that have benefited from years of favoritism are now crying and saying it's the new assessors fault. It took over 20 years for 2 assessors to put us in this position, it won't be corrected over night! People WANT all of the benefits of fair taxes but aren't willing to pay their fair share. If they decide to replace Botto, we ALL need to let Cadwell know we will NOT support hiring a Torch Lake Twp. resident/tax payer for that position. We need an unbiased, fair and accountable person, like we have right now! The sad state our Twp. is in is directly due to in-house representation. Let's get this straightened out once and for all. I'd say let Botto do his job and have the Board deal with the many other issues. What is the status of the roads and boat launch? Maybe I missed something but I haven't heard anything lately.
You hit the nail on the head, Birds Eye. In fact you hit several. Where are all the people that should be up-in-arms over our present board and its supervisor? It sure sounds like a cookie-cutter board. Since they have been in power I understand that there has been only ONE vote that wasn't unanimous. The previous board, at least, had individual opinions. I think the current supervisor gets his voting instructions and then passes them on to the other board members. There's not even intelligent discussion on issues, from what I hear. Let's hope Great Scott continues to monitor the meetings for us.
I've heard that Cadwell already has Mr. Botto's successor chosen. Is that giving Botto a fair chance? Do they just want someone who will do as told instead of doing what is right? There is much to be uncovered and we can't let the current board find an assessor who will continue to sweep the past dirt under the rug. It's time for the tax payers to say, "Enough! Give us fairness and equality."
Cooker,
You asked:
Where are all the people that should be up-in-arms over our present board and its supervisor?
Speaking as an outsider, I wonder if you've considered the possibility that most Torch Lake people are happy with the Cadwell and the current board. No official ever pleases everyone, but it appears to me that the vast majority there are satisfied with things as they stand.
Anyone unhappy with the current arrangement had an opportunity to run for the open seat in the November 8 election. Unless I'm way off the mark, none of the posters here decided to contest that seat.
Contrast that with the actions of the people who were actually dissatisfied with the previous board. They got off their backsides and changed things to their liking. They worked hard and got what they wanted. Driving along M26 at the time, my impression was that many more people had signs out supporting the recall than not.
Sure it's right to keep an eye on what the board does--that's always the right thing to do. But the fact of the matter is that no one was actually unhappy enough to do something to change its makeup.
As I've said before, we get the government we deserve. And I say that as someone who--the vast majority of the time--has to live in a country with leadership I know to be completely unworthy.
That's life in a representative democracy. And I wouldn't have it any other way.
Been there,
It's obvious that you haven't "been there" or at least not in Torch Lake. The reason that so many don't speak up and won't be counted is FEAR. Do you have any idea of what a strong influence that can be? Many people have said they are afraid of what the influential people on the Recall Committee can and would do to them. These are not entirely unfounded. It is a few VERY powerful families that have run the area openly and silently for years. If you asked the people who signed the recall petitions WHY they signed, the answers are pathetic. Almost none of them spoke directly to those they were recalling. Almost none of them had ever attended a township board meeting. Why did they sign the petitions? "Everyone was doing it." "I was told it was the right thing to do." "People should have a chance to vote whenever they want." "I was told the board wasn't acting in the right way." Etc. Pathetic. Maybe you should look a little deeper, Been There, and you might find that so many people don't like Cadwell as much as they fear the man running him. The supervisor has disappointed many people by not being a man of his word. That's a sorry indictment and sad way to start his reign.
I must say it shocks and surprises me that you and the others declined to run for office to clean up Torch Lake government out of fear. I do spend time in Torch Lake--I come to Lake Linden or to Dreamland for dinner sometimes, for example--and have never noticed a climate of fear.
Also, I confess that I don't understand exactly what there is to fear. Not violence, surely, as law enforcement would surely deal with any threats of that sort. Economic retaliation? People losing jobs? Businesses losing customers? Is that it?
Looking over your posts, I do see element of fear there, and am sorry for that. Even in an anonymous forum like this, it seems you don't dare name the families that you say control Torch Lake township, even though it is supposedly common knowledge among those living there.
But how would fear keep people from expressing themselves in the polling place, when balloting is secret? That I just don't get. Because of the secret ballot, I still think we always get the government we--collectively--deserve.
To run for office one must be a resident, right? Not just a concerned tax payer but an actual resident.
I guess you are saying that you pay taxes in Torch Lake but that you, too, don't actually live there. What about Great Scott and Birds Eye?
Maybe the people who actually live in the township are happy, but it is the absentee property owners who are not. That wouldn't be too surprising, as there is always a bit of tension in such situations.
Here is my take on last Wednesday's TL board meeting. Lots of time was spent on routine things like approving the payment of bills that had come in, and so on. But some other stuff came up too.
On fair taxes, the state had asked TLT to produce a plan to correct deficiencies by November 4, but Brian got them to extend that deadline to December 1. Out of 140 things that the township is required to do to make sure of fair taxes, only 87 are now being done properly. The board has to come up with a plan to fix the rest. What they come up with will be discussed in the November meeting. Looks like the state won't let the township continue business as usual so long as people here don't let stuff get swept under the rug again.
The boat launch project will go next year. The grant money will still be there.
Diane Zurcher came late to the meeting from a meeting in Houghton on the county's new tax software. She said it's easier to use and the discussion brought out that the new software will save money on paper and postage, and will put the information out on a web site available to the public. Before the meeting was over, the board had okayed buying the same software for TLT.
The election for the open seat is on November 8 and it will be writeins only - because both the Republican and Democrat parties didn't get the paperwork in on time for names to go on the ballot. Anyone can still be a writein candidate if they get their paperwork in by Friday. Anyone who wants to run should put an ad in the paper and put some signs out so people will know they are running.
Great Scot,
Is it true that Mike Dube for Trustee signs have been popping up around your township? Isn't that interesting after he said he supported Elsa Mugford in July and then worked hard to dump her and now he wants the seat? Can his word be trusted? How will Mr.Cadwell come down on this one after he told the audience (I was at that meeting) that he didn't want another board member from Hubbell. Should be interesting. Is anyone else running for the seat? Is Dube the choice of Dan Sarazin and his coalition?
Let's see what happens. Things have calmed down, and that is not ALWAYS a bad thing.
BG
Cooker, Mike Dube's signs were up first, but then signs went up for Denise Lepisto and David LaCross also.
Can somebody please help me understand the politics of this area? I moved here about 9 months ago, and have followed the goings-on, but have no idea what the big issues are. Where did these problems start?
I've been trying to learn about the area by surfing the net, and found this site. Very interesting to say the least, but what are the underlying issues, who is on which side, and what am I supposed to think?
If you can provide any advice, thanks.
Can you let us know what happened at the last Torch Lake Township board meeting? It must have been Mrs. Lepisto's first appearance. I wonder how many people in attendance realized that everyone on the board is serving in their current position as a result of the recall election and only Cadwell has ANY experience and his is very limited. Since most of the audience worked hard for the recall, as did all but one person on the board, the Bootjack Coalition should be very happy. Let's see what they can produce now that they have control.
Did you ever hear who won the hovercraft and how much was made on the raffle?
A snowstorm emergency made me miss the TL board meeting last month, sorry.
I heard that Denise was there, but not Diane, and that the meetings have been changed again to 6:30 p.m. on the third Wednesday of the month.
Has there been a Torch Lake township meeting this month? If so, what happened?
Wutzup, glad you are posting here and interested in good govt in Torch Lake. Do you go to the board meetings? Next one is tomorrow night at 6:30 pm.
Cooker, tomorrow is the third Wednesday, so nothing yet. If anything happens I will try to post it here.
For a newcomer, Wutzup, you have a good handle on the workings (or lack thereof) of Torch Lake Township politics. The saddest part was whenMr. Sarazin sat in the audience at the township board meeting where Mr. Murtaugh pointed out how much our school had lost ($40,000) because people were unfairly homesteading property. He was (and is) the vice-pres. of the school system and said not one word. When this was revealed the (then) township supervisor admitted that it was true. It's interesting to note that the school superintendent signed the recall petitions last summer. Apparently he is of the same mind as the school board vice-pres. and doesn't care that our schools are being short-changed. Some tax payers have said to leave the Sarazin property alone because it is historically significant. That's short-sighted. It's also income producing and should be taxed accordingly.
Does anyone know what happened at the last township board meeting? Did Chief have much imput? He always does.
Cooker, counting the board, only a dozen people were in the room at the TL board mtg.
Mostly routine business, but the BJ firehouse has been remodeled to be ready for the new fire truck. Karen estimated that a new garbage truck will cost $130,000. Diane explained why she was so late sending the tax bills, she is new to the job and also had problems with the new computer software, had to deputize her husband to get the job done.
Hi all, been a while for me! Interesting......secret society, $200K?? Tell me more. I've heard about this elite group but don't know a whole lot. I DO know many feel it's part of the fire department and not a separate entity! Which brings me to the Hover Craft. Could someone PLEASE explain to me why little Boot Jack needs this space age piece of equiment and why we, as tax payers have to ultimately fork out the money to cover insurance, repairs and possible lawsuits???? And could someone tell me how many times the contraption has been used....where it was really needed??? I never did hear what happened to the brand new one that needed repairs,....maybe it was damaged in the parade??!!!! Anyone know the story behind the wounded Hover Craft? I really question the need for this equipment by a rural fire dept. It might be a feather in the Chief's hat but......maybe when he and all his buddies start paying their fair share of taxes, I'll agree our township is wealthy enough to purchase state of the art trucks and other toys at will!
Fill in the blanks, please!!
So THAT'S the real story of the Hovercraft??? Wonder why it never got out? And I wonder why the DMG has never looked into the Foundation. Seems to me, if they were just interested in raising money for the Fire Department and the greater good of the community, no secrecy would be necessary!
It is interesting that the Foundation is a NONPROFIT..........NOT a "private" corporation. The two are very different animals.
I feel sorry for all of the people on fixed incomes that The Foundation is conning into donations. If they were on the level, they'd publicize their fundraising efforts.....and the dollar amounts raised.
I am not an expert on Foundations but am fairly certain that if they are a non-profit organization, their records are public. Maybe someone needs to ask for a report and to see the financials.....could be a good request for an upcoming Twp. board meeting. The "Chief" does like to talk, we'll see if the secret society is one he is willing to discsuss. Then one is left to wonder if we'd get the whole story or just what he wants the public to hear....like the Hovercraft rescue story. That was very interesting, I must say. I would still like to hear how many times the thing has been used for emergencies in our township......emergencies where other more conventional methods wouldn't have worked. Has anyone heard any talk on it's use?? And WHY the new one needed repairs so soon?? Back to the Foundation. How does one become a member? Now THAT could be interesting!
You're right; 10 minutes is really something. Worth calling the Gazette and having them cover the story.
Is it true that Michele Anderson knows the identity of each of us? Is it true that she's a close friend of the Bootjack Coalition and Chief?
If the BJFD was there in 10 minutes that is wonderful. However, I am still not certain that a Hovercraft is what is needed. If they rescued the snowmobilers with surfboards, would we then all say the FD needs surfboards?
The Coast Guard claims that HOvercrafts are expensive to maintain and can only be used under very limited circumstances.
Volunteer Fire fighters sacrafice a large amount of time to serve the community. Additionally, they do risk their own safety for the good of the community. However, I have lived several places served by volunteer fire departments and in every case, except Bootjack, the fire dept and its members became PART of the community. If these people cannot be friendly and KIND during township meetings.......I am not so comfortable that if I ever needed them they would be there. I find it VERY unprofessional.
What if one of the recall candidates needed the services of the BJFD?? Do you think they'd have confidence in people who have a recall sign in their front yard to be the very folks that had to save him/her???? I would think along with the fancy fire truck the entire department needs to take a class on ethics and professionalism.
It would be very simple for them to do a much better job and to be proud of the community and residents they serve. And then when questions, such as the Hovercraft, came up perhaps they would answer the questions and be believe, trusted and respected.
As I said, I have seen much more professional behavior out of other volunteer fire departments. It can happen and should be what we, as taxpayers and residents, expect.
Thanks for the clarification. Yes, I'm aware the hovercraft was DONATED, as you say. However.......was the insurance DONATED, was the cost of maintainence DONATED, and why does the BJFD have to LEASE DONATED equipment to the Township?????????????
And, yes, I'm also aware that the BJFD responded to a call. It may have been handled in a timely manner, however I would not call it professional, by ANY means. The call was the subject local gossip and began with information that ONLY the BJFD volunteers, who were present at the scene, would have known. As gossip goes, the story was twisted, exagerated and by the time all was said and done, a truley awful (and untrue) story was going around town. Fire members should NEVER, EVER discuss what happens on a call. This does not present a professional organization, I don't care how shiney the fire truck is.
If the hovercraft is a necessary piece of equipment, then it is wonderful that we have one. However, leasing it to the Township is wrong and I still do not think the BJFD presents themselves professional or ethically.
I do not think that those on the BJFD Board, or the Board of the Foundation, should , in their own good concious, have political signage. Yes, they should vote, but their opinions and political views should not be so evident. It is not professional, period. I am sorry that you feel folks who are responsible for the safety of the community can act in such a manner. It is NOT like that in other places. I think the person in CHARGE of the Fire Dept should also give the members a good talk about how to act at public meetings. Their behavior on many occasions can only be catagorized as very sophmoric. Again, it leads one to question the professionalism and ability of the volunteers.
This is an easy fix, and it's free. The Dept just needs to change how it operates. No chicken BBQ's required and they would gain a great deal more respect.
Tag Elder, your point was this:
They've been in this situation and it was handled in a timely/professional manner.
SO, by YOUR OWN ADMISSION, the BJFD has been on calls to people they don't like/don't respect/ or aren't on the "in" crowd (however you would chose to state this).
My POINT: If they were professional.........THIS SITUATION WOULD NEVER EXIST!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for openly admitting that what we suspected was true. I hope something can be done to correct the situation.
AHH BB03BC, I am not surprised at all by your support of BJFD. hmmm. could it be that is because you ARE one of them? You have far, far more information than an "outsider" would. First, YOU stated that BJFD responded to someone who was being recalled.........nowhere else in these posts was that stated. Secondly, you know there is a 911 tape. Many rural areas still do not have 911 service. How could a tourist know that? And there are many other points to you not being a "visitor " to the area as previously stated.
I've traveled a great deal and never known which city had hazmat, which had jaws of life etc etc. It is really intersting that a tourist would have all this insight!!!
And lastly, it is really REALLY hard to believe that someone who was rescued to so adamantly defend the ethics of an organization....perhaps a snowmobiler would state they responded quickly, knew what they were doing etc etc. But an intelligent person would never respond to the politics of a rural area that they knew nothing about.
The facts remain
1. Tag Elder admitted the BJFD responded to "one such call".......that situation would NEVER exist in a PROFESSIONAL fire dept.
2. Facts of a call should NEVER be discussed outside of the Dept.
3. Any issues I, myself, have raised have been with PROCEDURES, POLICIES, and PROFESSIONALISM....those are NOT personal issues
4. In many, many rural areas Volunteer Fire Departments serve the community. They attend public meetings without screaming and making an *&^ out of themselves. The are not openly policitical and they do not discuss calls they go on. That IS the way it should be and the BJFD is very capable of that.
If I am wrong, and you truley are a tourist, I apologize. However, I've never met anyone with so much insider information, or one who was willing to go out on a limb making claims about an organization and indivduals whom they knew nothing about.
There are many folks who support the BJFD, my points are simply that they can conduct them
Mr BB03BC-
I just realized that you stated you were a local, but a snowmobiler. I misunderstood.
To clarify, I never, at any time, stated that the BJFD would not respond to a call. I said, that if they acted more hunanely in public, at meetings etc,, they would be viewed more professionally. That is a FACT. Aditionally, I stated that they should NOT discuss calls. I'm not sure what a 911 tape has to do with anything.
Tag Elder did admit that they'd been on "those kind of calls"......this situation should never, EVER exist. There's really no way around that.
JRussell: If read my post I said I was a local with some out of towners that night also I state that is why it's great to live in the Copper Country. I'm an outsider to Torch Lake Township not hte copper country. I'm not going to argue politics with you since it seems the people of torch lake township spoke as to how they want the township to be run. and you seem to be very bitter about that but just like the people who started the recall you have the right to speak your mind.
P.S I would be proud to be member of the Bootjack Department!!
BB03BC
1. I apologized in my last post about thinking you were a tourist. I apologize a second time. I did not re-read your first post and, it was a bit difficult to follow.
2. I am certain you'd be welcomed with open arms by the BJFD.
3. It is VERY intersting that anyone who questions anything about the BJFD is termed as "bitter". Bitter means having hatred. One cannot have hatred or be "bitter" when they are raising issues with procedures, policies, actions.
4.An intelligent person does raise questions, and an intelligent person on the other end (I am not saying you are or not intelligent) recognizes discussion for what is it and responds accordingly.
5. I do not have to "like" a fireman.......in fact the only time I've ever needed the Fire Department, I didn't even know them. I only want professional people who do their job and don't talk about what they see. Isn't that the way it should be??? In fact, I'd rather not "know", let alone "like" the people who might see me in that sort of situation.
6. The Leader of any group is responsible for their reputation and actions. That is the very essence of a leader. If I were in charge of the BJFD, I would remove anyone from the department who 1) discussed calls or 2) publicly acted in a manner that was harming to the group as a whole.
7. By choosing to become a Volunteer Firefighter, those people accept the responsiblity of conducting themselves in public and in private in a manner that would not lessen their abilities as a Firefighter. It simply goes with the territory. If a volunteer can come to a Township Meeting and not control their temper, how could they possibly be effective in an emergency situation where, calmness, level-headed thinking and controlled emmotions are essential??
8. A 911 tape is not needed to realize that information was spread into the community that should not have been. Whatever is on there is irrelevant and it is of no interest to me. Additionally, I would never want to invade someone's privacy in such a manner...what compasionate human being would??? Assuming BJFD does have ethics, I am sure this is one point they'd agree with me on.
I do not consider these expectations to be "bitter". You have made a lot of assumptions about me, and what I view is attacks on me as a person. I am simply raising logical questions and points.
If everything were "OK" with the dept and their actions, the questions I raise would be met with a logical response. So far I haven't heard one.
Ya know what Tag Elder, you are right. And the good news is many of these issues are fized easily, and I have a feeling you are in a good position to do just that.
We ARE talking about people who save lives, and also people whose lives require saving and those people should expect a fire dept that is as shiney and bright as their fire truck. And I am very certain the BJFD can do just that.
There is ABSOLUTELY no hatred or bitterness. There is, however, a lack of respect. I, myself, once heard a member of the Fire Dept bellow out "GO back to the City where you came from" at a Township meeting. That behavior is unacceptable and if I were in charge of the BJFD it would not happen.
If I were in charge, I'd answer questions openly about hte HOvercraft, the FOundation etc etc. I would make sure that the organization presented itself publically in such a manner that people understood they were caring, committed individuals with no personal or political slants.
I am really lost....how is this considered hatred???? I think it is called COMMUNITY, COMPASSION and PROFESSIONALISM.
What, specifically, have I said that one should not expect from a Fire Department, volunteer or paid?
As I have said repetedly, it is a tremendous sacrifice to be a volunteer firefighter....but you don't gave a whole lot of trust if you can't even control your temper in a silly township meeting. That is NOT hatred......it is simple logic. As I said, I don't hate any of them. Most I don't even know....but the behavior I've seen with my own two eyes can CERTAINLY be improved upon. How 'bout it Tag Elder?
I guess I don't understand what you think the members of the BVFD gain personally by putting in endless hours of training and fundraising to purchase equipment for the department without having to use tax dollars ( I Understand that the township pays the insurance. pretty small price for the nice equipment it sounds like they have). As for the call to the persons house I only know what was told to from my Brother in law that he heard on the scanner. If members where talking about the call that is wrong but there was a lot of information out there in scannerland for anyone with a scanner to hear so if you are saying that members where unethical you better make sure what was on the scanner and what wasn't and the only true way to do that would be what's on tape. As far as your issiue's with the chief call him up and talk to him. It also seems like people have questions about this foundation. If it's a 501c3 they have to file tax returns which should be avaliable from the IRS. that would tell you how much money they have and what they do with it. I'm not going to continue this discussion because I don't think any thing is going to change the way we feel about this group of volunteers.
P.S I'm sorry if you feel I attacked you personally I just have strong feelings about people who dedicate the time that Fireman, first respoders do for what? to Help people again what do they gain personally?
BB
Thanks for the apology. Apology accepted.
I guess I don't understand what you think the members of the BVFD gain personally
I dont' think they have anything to gain, and I didn't ever state that.
You really seem to defend them, regardless. I have stated, and will again, that I respect the time and efforts they put in. I, myself, have a personal understanding of their efforts. My point has never, at any time, been related to this.
Why is it when people question (and there are many), they are then referred to as being "bitter" or having "hatred" or the "poor hardworking firemen" screen is raised. There are a LOT of us who work hard and donate a lot and we do it in a very different manner. Therein lies the problem
I have stated it before, and will again. I have tremendous respect for the generous donation of time, efforts and dedication, however I would respect the organization far more if they acted more professionally.
Lastly, I have to clarify one of my points. Even if you don't live in TLT, I would not consider you an "outsider". I get very, very tired of that attitude in the UP. Too many folks have forgotten when the mines closed how awful things got. I wish the UP could always stay the same, but know that with all the "new folks" many people like ourselves were able to maintain our roots. The area would have died without newcomers and tourists....and many, many people would have had to leave the Copper Country.
Great Scott...where ya been? You usually have some interesting and thought provoking comments! Any new issues on the agenda for the upcoming meeting?
Wutzup......what's with this identity theft?? Did Cooker have a point in that posting? Fill us in!
Huh?? You lost me wuzup. What do you mean 'what out for identity theft?" Maybe I am slow this morning.
sorry!
By the way, BB you haven't offended me and I think we should be able to discuss things even when we don't agree. I hope you understand that my issues are not based on one instance, personal grudges (many of these people I've never even spoken to) or wild assumptions. Clearly, something is not right and anyone who questions, is labeled as hating the fire fighters.
Since you were at the scene, I have a question. Were you actually rescued by the Hovercraft?
I have nothing against the hovercraft, and if it is truely necessary, then I'm glad we have it. The entire mess of the HOvercraft was, in my estimation, brought on by the untruths spread by the BJFD. They initially stated that the Township Board was against the Hovercraft. That was COMPLETELY untrue. The Board was advised by township legal councel that the equipment could not be placed into service until it was insured. (there are more details to this, but they are irrelevant to the overall point). The members of the BJFD LIED (not a word I like, but there is no other way to put it). They told the public that the Board would not let them use the equipment.
ALl of this could have been avoided by the BJFD with a couple simple steps. They chose not to take those steps and instead spread rumors that the Board was "against" them. This was spread through the gossip chain, again pointing to members talking out of school, and it is in print with direct quotes from members.
From what I have been told, Hovercrafts are impracticle in most cases and very, very expensive to maintain. If the BJFD really needs one, and had a case to make...instead of taking "pop shots" at people, and then turning around and labeling them as people "who don't like the BJFD" they would have stood up and said, "this is why we need the equipment, this is how it is used, this is how much it costs to maintain" etc etc etc.
Whenever one veers off the subject , evades direct questions and starts taking "pop shots" it is almost always because they don't have a case to make or a logical answer. The BJFD either needs a better spokesperson or they need to start telling the truth.
It is not the Fire Dept I don't like, it is their actions, their professionalism and, yes, there involvement in politics, which is documented as well. As I have said before, I have lived in other areas served by volunteer fire departments and they did NOT operate this way.
As a final note........The Foundation raises a lot of money. However, the majority of the BJFD is funded by the taxpayer. That makes them accountable to all of us.
One more point I forgot to respond to. Yes, the Foundation's tax returns are a matter of public record.
I was not there, but I understand that the TLT asked the Foundation for their Articles of Incorporation. They were told "no". They asked to see tax returns, they were told "No, we don't have to. We are a 'private' corporation." From my understanding this was done in a public meeting. (if I am wrong I apologize.....however it goes along with other instances that I know to be true).
Regardless of right, wrong, regulations............what the heck is there to hide?????
Again, anyone who brings this up is said to "hate the fire department/firefighters."
No.........it is simply just not right. Period. Act in an upright manner and you will gain more respect, and attract fewer questions.
Assuming that no one has obtained (or guessed) the password of someone posting here, no identity theft has occurred.
Furthermore, the private email addresses of those registered here are never revealed. In fact, no one (not the FBI, not the NSA, and definitely not Michele Anderson) has ever asked that those email addresses be decrypted and revealed. If anyone ever asks, I'll post that information here.
That said, I'm very pleased to see folks posting on local issues!
Birch Bark
AH. No. And no melodramatics. They simply don't work! Board members have a responsibility to the Township. They were advised by legal councel that the equipment had to be insured first. Board members have a responsibility to follow legal councel's advice.
The Foundation, could have taken one SIMPLE step to avoid all of this, but they didn't.
I still have NOT heard why the Hovercraft was critical to this rescue when no other equipment would do the job. If that is the case......why doesn't somebody just answer the question instead of making ridiculous, melodramatic comments like "should they just have let him drown"
Based upon that comment...the snowmobiler must have been in the water and the BJFD actually pulled them out? Is that the case?
The way the gossip chain works......this will be twisted to "somebody said we shoulda let the guy drown". That would be a blatant lie to go along with all of the others.
I have asked, and will ask again, if there is a good case for this eqipment and intelligent, logical person would say, "this is what it does, this is how it's used, this is what it costs etc etc etc............NOT 'the guy shoulda drown??"
The BJFD could get to calls a lot faster if they all had Ferarri's........does this make sense? No. Could you use one on dirt roads> NO. Intelligent people question.....and are usually met with a logical answer.
This equipment really must be a hoax because nobody seems to be able to provide a reasonable, logical answer.
Sometimes it is really hard to get past all of they hyperbole and straight to the matter.
All of the former members of TLT live in the area. They hunt and fish and snowmobile. The have homes and grandchildren, neighbors and loved ones.
They depend on the BJFD for fire and rescue.
I assume they are not complete idiots.
Does it make any sense at all that they would deny the BJFD use of equipment that was necessary or could save lives Juat to be mean to the Fire Fighters ?? Do the people associated with the BJFD really think they are that stupid? Somehow all of the folks in the gossip chain were stupid (sorry, but it must be said) enough to buy this line of Bologna.
You are a gem, Tag!! I almost have to laugh at what you just said but it really supports what I have questioned...whether BJ is the right dept. to own, maintain and yes insure the Hovercraft. It has nothing to do with saving lives and questioning whether that's important. I think I made my stance crystal clear on that. Let's make a deal, Tag, I won't go there again if you don't twist things into making it sound like I don't think saving lives or firefighters jobs are important! From what I can tell, you don't have the right audience for that in this forum anyway. Certainly not with me! Did you re-read your post before sending it? Can someone in your shoes really say that using an uninsured piece of equipment in a rescue mission, or anyplace for that matter, is OK? The governing body of firefighters would CRINGE at reading your post. Is that what you teach your children? Buy a car and drive it before insuring it, INSTEAD of securing the insurance BEFORE you drive out of the lot, like most people? If there is a question with insurance, we don't want them on the road, similar situation here. And do we know if this was in fact a life-saving situation where nothing else would have worked (and I mean truly a life or death situation because I haven't heard that anywhere)? Or was this a situation where it was nice to have the Hovercraft but not unconditionally necessary? I like JRussell's reference to a Ferrari! I think the people your fire dept. must answer to would be very concerned about your philosophy. Oh ya, you got rid of them! Sorry, couldn't pass up a little sarcasimn. What if your man and the machine went into the lake during that event? Hmmmm, guess who would have to cover THAT expense and possibly a wrongful death suit? And you say I'm not worried about saving lives???!!! As far as I can see, Torch Lake isn't in the position to take on that kind of liability, now are they? Maybe it's hard to admit you screwed up with this but the bottom line is, this isn't about saving lives or actual people, this discussion is about business and the decisions some have made. I hope you learned a lesson with this, I sure have. I hadn't heard that the Hovercraft was in fact used when it wasn't insured. Not good. My eyes are open even wider now!!!
Wuzup...thanks for clarifying the identity theft issue. I figured from the first posting that BBO wasn't writing for themself!! JRussell, you have a lot of knowledge on this subjuct. Fill us in. You've got my ear. The more we know, the more intelligent our questions, the more room for clarification and ultimately a stronger twp. and a fire dept. that works with the community as a whole. Now wouldn't that be nice! Let's get some of these questions answered with facts! Sounds like a few of you have them!
I agree with wuzup's comments about the insurance. TLT should put anything over (x) dollars out for open bid.......perhaps $1000, maybe even $500. Not only will they get better products/service...they will get better prices. Under very limited circumstances should they grant directly to one business.
As far as the insurance goes........I believe that the current policy has a $250 deductible........that is lower than I have on my own home and, therefore, far more expensive. ANy good accountant, or reputible insurance agent, would NEVER suggest this...........If you file claims under $500 a few times, you will be dropped anyway. It is much better to pay small expenses directly and save insurance for big things.........and it is much cheaper.
I couldn't believe it when I heard this and was amazed that they'd had the Township business for years with no bids being sent out.
I wrote every post on this site by BB03BC. I just feel that not having heard anything in the paper that things are working in Torch Lake Township with the new board and I don't want to be the one that started this crap all over again
As for the hovercraft rescue the torch lake cuts are about a mile long with thick marsh on both side to search by foot would take a long time remember I did'nt know if they wher on the ice or not it was pitch black and I was probablly a half mile away. they where there in 10 minutes and I mean they knew where everybody was. The guys were on the ice but afraid to move because they would keep breaking threw the hover craft was able to pull right up to them. they where close to the dollar bay sid eof the cuts so they got both guys onto shore over there but the on guy was extermly hypothermic so with the air bag problem one rescuer stayed with the other guy on shore and with the radios they had someother firemen come around an get them these firemen had to pick there way through the thick marsh to get to them the hovercraft brought the other guy to some machines on the bootjack side where he was brought to the fire hall untill the ambulance arrived they where just leaving with the one guy when the guys from the other side got the other guy that was wet to the hall he wasn't as wet and refused treatment the guy who went to the hospital spent the night where he was treateed for hypothemia. did the hovercraft save there lives I don't know but if they had to do this with ropes and boats you tell me how long it would take. it might not have been the factro in sving there lives but maybe a Foot or a Hand know you tell me if this was you or a friend of yours would you want to wait for them fist to find you by foot or have to wait for a helicopter I know I wouldn't. as for the insurance I I don't know if it was coverd or not but I can tell you our group could care lees we all where safe thanks to the profesionalism of the BJVFD.
Jrussell if every body in this gossip chain is stupid then why don't you run for the township board it sounds like you could do know wrong and could slove any troubles that Torch Lake Township has or had. Have at it's not my township, who runs it is up to the residents of TLT and I think I see why the residents did what they did. I tried to aploigize and make this a disscussion but thats evidently not your goal looks to me like you like to stir the pot. Your problems with TLT seem to be all aimed at the fire department. You blame the leadership of this deparment for everything that was wrong in TLT yet who puts this person in charge? the members what could this leadership hold over these people to make them do what ever he say's why don't you let the members of the BJVFD no how you think maybe the'll make you chief.
You are entitled to question how your township is run but the more I hear from you the more I see it's personel and not what's best for TLT.
BB-
I did not that everyone in this discussion group is stupid. It sounds to me like you just got input from someone as you are on the attack mode again. Actually, I wanted to thank you for describing how the hovercraft was used. It should have been done by the BJFD a long time ago.
You have misunderstood me completely. I thought I wrote clearly, so I am sorry. I don't take pop shots at people...including you.
I accepted your apology....that was clear. Your verbiage is very aggressive and filled with anger. Mine has not been. It is simply based on my thoughts, and the information I have. I have not used melodramatics.
I said those involved in the TLT gossip chain must be stupid. A) I have no respect for gossip and B) If those in the gossip chain believed the bologna line that the former TLT Board tried to prevent the BJFD from using the Hovercraft just to be mean to the fireman...it makes no sense. They must be stupid. Please re-read my post.
I did NOT reference the people in this forum. Do you think it makes any logical sense that the Board members would do this, at their own potential danger, just to be mean?? This is what I mean when I say these people (the Gossip Chain) falls for any line of BS.
I do plenty of wrong things, just ask my wife and I do not put myself on a pedestal. At no time have I made myself out to be better than anyone. I have only pointed to facts.
There are many problems with TLT and they must be resolved, or all will suffer. The BJFD is ONE of them.
How did I say that everything is the fault of the BJFD?
What personal attacks have I made?
Every statement I have made can be proven, and if not I have clearly said "I believe, or "I heard....
What IS best for TLT???
1 A Foundation who hides their 1099's ( A violation of FEDERAL LAW)
2. A Fire Dept that cannot provide a simple logical explanation for equipment (your explanation BB was far better than any one else's.....they should have you as a spokesperson)
3. A Fire Department which participates, as a group, in influencing local elections (yes, this is documented as well)
4. A Fire Dept that talks out of school
There are serious problems that remain in TLT and not all of us are willing to accept the label as "hating the firemen" when we ask questions about equipment, gossip or influencing local elections.
I am NOT proud, nor do I respect, a fire department whose ranks can shout "go back to the city where you came from " to an elderly person at a meeting. Yes, If I were in charge I'd I would do things differently. Am I wrong on any of these points?: How is it mean, to expect anything different??????
I really honestly feel that you must have very close ties to this group, because you react in the same way. You attack someone when they raise questions ...it really sounds to me like someone didn't like your prior posts which were quite nice, and very reasonable, while still supporting your point.
JRussell....hadn't heard that about the insurance. Interesting. Is the ins. agent a local person or do all Townships use a specific insurance company geared towards twp. type of coverage? $250 deductible.....really? Is that standard?
Thanks for the play-by-play of the Hovercraft use, BBO. Nice to hear how it's actually used. As I have said, I don't doubt that it CAN be used, I am sure all departments could find a way to use it. Glad it helped, just wish things had been done in a business-like and professional manner, and in the right order.
Wuzup, between you and JRussell, we have heard a lot of things. I am looking forward to more. Looks like there are a number of different people on this topic with different "knowledge" and with different views!! I imagine the BJ phone-line is hot right now. Good, let's get this out in the open.
Once again, no sugar coating here!!! I look at this forum as an opportunity for all of us to learn a thing or two! Don't be afraid of questioning and for disagreement. If you are that close to the source,and are taking it personally then back off. This isn't personal. We are talking about public entities, and the time has come for them to be held accountable. That's not wrong!! It's healthy!
Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Friday, January 13, 2006 2:24 PM Sometimes it is really hard to get past all of they hyperbole and straight to the matter.
A few punctuation changes, cleared up one typo (no glasses on, sorry) and a few numbers added to prior post...........hope my original point is now clear. No stirring the pot..........I honestly think that people who believe The Board would deny use of an essential piece of equipment ARE stupid because it simply makes no sense.
Hope this helps.
One more point of clarification about my pedestal.........when I say I would not have gossipers on the Fire Dept, when I say that I would expect them to present a professional front in public, I am not speaking out of my ear. I have been in charge of groups, and I have eliminated people,or changed their position, because they did not present the correct image. This is a simple fact, and it goes with the territory of being a leader. I am not Monday Morning quarterbacking, and I'm not speaking from a pedestal either. It is a simple fact of business.
And as a leader of several groups, I have been accountable for and responsible for the group as a whole and the actions of individuals.
My comments on how to fix issues come from experience.
Bye BB
I don't consider that posting as "gossip" it was clearly stated how they obtained the information and contained no personal information. The only posts that have been directed to you, at least by me, is when you have made false accustations against me, or attacked me personally rather than sticking to a discussion of the issues.
I wouldn't necessarily rely on ANY newspaper as reporting any and all information. That would be RIDICULOUS! And the DMG is in a precarious position, as all small town newspapers are, when it comes to reporting "real issues". SInce you, yourself, state the DMG as the only source for truth......look up their Editorial last summer on the Recall campaign.......for a paper who does not go out on a limb it spoke VOLUMES about what goes on in TLT.
I believe your postings have been the most aggressive and the only ones who have taken low blows and pop shots (other than the melodramatic comments). So, we discuss things on a different level if you are unable to discuss issues, with no low blows, with someone who has a different opinion...you are right you shouldn't post messages on the internet. Unlikely you'll find a crowd anywhere who agrees with all of your ideas.
Maybe you know us, maybe you don't. Irrelevant really,. Best of luck to you.
To All:
I have several "double posts" on this message board. My apologies. This site is a bit slower than I am used to and, in error, I hit the submit button more than once.
Perhaps the webmaster can clear these up.
I apologize if it took up too much "real estate" and others' posts were accidentally pushed down the line.
I'm glad to find others in TLT who wish to discuss issues on an issue-oriented basis. It is refreshing to find and what needs to occur.
I liken TLT to a company.....there is always room for improvement, there will be mistakes made. A company must assess issues on an ongoing basis, discuss things that have gone wrong, have an action plan to improve/fix areas. It is not considered "bitter" to say "the accounting dept needs to improve" etc. A company doesn't improve by saying "the customer service dept hangs up on people, but they work hard hours and put in a lot of time" An intelligent person recognizes that issues can be discussed fairly, openly and improvements made. I am happy to have found others in TLT that recognize that this needs to occur.
It is interesting that this is refered to as "stirring the pot" or "I thought that was over and we could move on".
As far as I know, there are many issues that are still in need of "fixing" and I am hoping that the new adminstration recognizes this and continues to work on them.
I've always wanted issues to be put out on the table so that they could be addressed and resolved. It is interesting that the mentality is still the same....don't question, just agree and follow in line, and if you don't you'll be labeled as "bitter", having "hatred" or stirring the pot. Glad I never ran a group like that.
Do you really think one guy can influence a whole town? I know a lot of very well educated people in TLT. I can say I know that none of them are swayed by one person.Unless he's God.
Thanks for clearing up all of the double posts. Sorry, again, about that.
Had to laugh about the "God" comment. And, yes, I do think one person can influence a community. A guy who's in charge of a Township is the Supervisor, A guy leading the Fall Hall is called the Chief, A guy in leading a state is a Govenor and a guy leading the country is a President. They get to those positions by influencing a lot of people. Sorry, ladies, the term "guy" is not gender-specific in its use here.
I look forward Tag Elders responses to specific issues.
To:JRussell
I don't wish to beat a dead horse.
To expect a police firemen or women to go onto thin ice where someone else just fell through requires three things. 1.Courage 2.volunteers 3.A device that can travel on snow ice and water safely with reasonable speed. I did some research before speaking out in public. A hovercraft seems ideal. ( If someone knows a better way please speak-up).I for one a'm glad our community has this life saving equiptment.
birds eye, I'm back and amazed at all the comments, this is great! Don't have first hand knowledge of the BJFD, have heard lots of rumors of course.
Have to admit I didn't pay much attention to local politics for a long time, my bad. Then the stuff with all the records at the Rheault farm in bad shape and not available to look at really bothered me. Talked with Peggy and Marlene and saw that they were really working hard to get the township working in a clean businesslike way.
Peggy and Marlene can be blunt and that gets on some nerves, but that's what it takes to change things. Then when people who work hard to clean things up get attacked and recalled, you can't help but be suspicious about the motives behind it.
Can't begin to say how good it feels to see all these posts!!!!
Great points, Great Scott! You hit the nail on the head. Fairness has been lacking for a long time. And unfortunately, the BJFD is now seen as a political group and that seems to over-shadow what they really are suppose to be....a fire dept.! A good fire dept. at that but.....they have no business using it as a smoke screen for political motives.
Great Scott,will you be at the meeting on Wed.? Seems like you have a pretty good track record. I was planning on it but once again, business is taking me out of town. Hope someone posts after the meeting.
Has anyone heard what the twp. is doing with the compliance issues? Hope that is being addressed. We know a few people that won't be happy with it but.....we should all pay our fair share to live in this great neck of the woods!! This new board may be slow to act on that as they were pretty much picked by the Coalition/BJFD and have their own best interests in mind, and that's NOT to hurry into compliance I'm sure!$$!
Lepisto was elected - her term doesn't expire until 2008. The rest have to run to keep their seat in Nov. 2006.
Doesn't Botto have a contract?
Welcome Iceman! I believe Botto is a year to year deal. Not sure. Just watch, he'll be gone. Mr. Botto has been very helpful and professional when I have talked to him. I heard that many feel that an assessor that lives in TL should have the job. Of course some of the things that have come out of this man's mouth make it pretty clear that he's "in step" (as Wuzup puts it) with the Bootjack conglomeration. We'll see. You are right, Lepisto was elected.....after how many shots at this??? How many times did she not turn her paperwork in on time or completed?? And she's helping run our township? Great. And how many votes did she receive last Fall?? As I remember, the voter turnout was pathetic. A couple of years ago when she ran against Marlene, she was really nasty and down-right lied in a letter she sent out to tax payers. It obviously didn't work because she didn't get Marlene's seat! I seem to remember that all the appointed board members will have to run this next year. Am I right?
Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant the assessor that lives in TL is in step with.....the BJ people! I was NOT referring to Botto. I agree, Mr. Botto is very professional and seems to think for himself. Most importantly he seems to be trying to do what he was hired to do, fairly assess our twp. Thanks for letting me clarify. Guess I REALLY need glasses or need to quit posting!
As far as the assessor goes, if the supervisor were to pass the assessors exam, he would be come the assessor automatically. This is state law. It seems to me the state prefers the assessor be a resident of the township - just by the way this law is written.
If the super were to pass the assessors exam, Botto would be out, the super in - and there would be nothing anyone could do about it. Mr. Botto should have had a contractual agreement with the township for X number of years. I am willing to bet Peggy and Marlene would have agreed to that. Now since he doesn't, I would doubt the new board will agree to one, if what you allege is true.
To Birch Bark,
I think you have a cancer on the Keweenaw Now website!!
These people hate EVERYONE, from a dying young man, to the prosecuting attorney.
They hate EVERYTHING from the Volunteer fire dept. to the Daily Mining Gazette.
If people start believing their lies we will have a cancer spreading through the community and this website will be known as the liars chat room.
This website should talk about the positives in this community. The beautiful scenery, the clean lakes, rivers and streams. Catching a record trout in the middle of a frozen pond. The 10 point buck on opening day. Snowmobiling along picturesque backwoods trails. The list goes on and on.
We would be better off without this website then to read this pollution!!
I don't believe any lies have been posted here. And nobody said they "hated a dying young man".....they said it was wrong to store public records in a cow barn ...........don't you feel that is wrong too? It is sad that the former supervisor's "friends" encouraged him to run for office and supported his re-election. If he were my friend, I would have said "buddy you need to take care of yourself, someone else can do the job." It was obvious to many that something was not right, and yet there was "support" for him to run again. That, in my opinion, was sad.
Again, the response to realistic and unresolved issues is met with melodrama. What LIES, specifically, have been spread here????
Supervisor Rheault, himself, stated that there was a shortage of $40K in tax money to the school system. That was over 2 years ago........what has been done about that??? Where are the "Concerned Citizens and Taxpayers COaltion" on this issue.......oh. I forgot......they were signing recall petitions against officers attempting to correct the situation. I thought that was a very ironic name for that group since they didn't appear to be concerned at all.
It is a fact that the BJFD didn't tell the truth about the Hovercraft. They stated the former TLT Board was against it......this was stated publicly and listed as the reason for the formation of the Coalition. In fact, the TLT said they could not sign the contract that was presented by the BJFD. According to something I read last summer, the contract included a clause that the equipment would be returned to the Foundation in the same condition in which it was leased........at yet the TLT Board had no control over the equipment and it was Foundation members who would have the control and use of hte equipment (albiet thru the Fire Dept).......However this did NOT come out and the Foundation simply spread a lot of things that were not true.
Yes, the work of Volunteer Fire FIghters is wonderful........but they do NOT have to go to meetings and act in the manner that they do and they are losing respect because of those, and other, actions.
I have said much. I have not said I hate anyone or any organization........and I am old enough to remember when things were not like this around here.
It is apparent that there are many problems and the fact that it seems from many of the posts here that the expectation is for issues to be ignored, we must go elsewhere to resolve them. I don't think they will be resolved on a local level. Not ONE question of "what are these tax inequities" or "why do you think the fire fighters are out of line" has come up........it is simply met with the same old hysterical "how dare you" response.
Well now, WELCOME Blueberry (oh, I use to love picking those wild berries in an old Finlander's secret patch...before the beautiful sunset but close to where I have caught many a pirch)! Give me a break. Look at this as an opportunity to clarify things and maybe state your opinion. What has been said was all around the town square and further, for the last few years. Set the record straight if you don't agree. Having said that, it's your choice to read this chat room!! Of course you could put your head in a hole and be content with thinking nothing is wrong in this wonderful and perfect twp.! I'm not willing to go along with your philosophy of "it's always been this way and it will never change"! Nope, not me.
Iceman, I am not familiar with all the assessor contracts etc. I have not heard that BC is interested in being the assessor. I know a certain recent Super (don't want to offend Blueberry) was also the assessor and he really made some major mistakes and goof-ups. One can definitely see favoritism in the way some properties were taxed and homesteaded, and that started before this certain Super was in office. What I say is easy to verify at the Courthouse but will take you some time. It is my hope that Botto will find a way to get people to come into compliance. Blueberry.....you can go to the Courthouse yourself and see what I am talking about. These tax records are public! So I don't think this is such a bad thing to be discussing. Our schools benefit or are hurt directly by property taxes. Give that some thought! I want the best for our kids, they are our future!
I was merely stating the facts for you to think about. I think the county equalization director could confirm the supervisor automatically becomes assessor if he or she is certified to do so. I don't know what is involved in the training - I do know there is a test that has to be taken and passed. I think there are different levels of testing depending upon which level of assessor you desire to be.
Hello Blueberry
These people will continue to find the bad in people because thats all they look for and talk about as they are proving by their own words. I don't believe I will visiting this website much.You know what they say! If you you want to be bitter hang around bitter people. If you want to be happy hang around happy people. ect,,,
P.S. Thanks for the breath of fresh air
The $40K tax shortage was stated publicly and is documented in TLT Meeting Minutes.....not my words at all.
The Hovercraft Contract was drawn up and presented to the TLT Board by the Bootjack Fire and Rescue Foundation. Again, not my words at all.
The Tax Inequities are a matter of public record ........there is an individual paying SEVENTY FIVE CENTS on 450 ft of waterfront property. Again, not my words.
Several folks associated with the Fire Department have been called out of order at meetings. Again, public record.
Errors in Homesteading.........again a matter of public record.
The Coalition being started because the "TLT Board was against the Hovercraft"........again a matter of public record and quoted as such.... None of these are my words at all!!
There is much more, but this suffices to make my point.....these are not "my words" and all of the above is in the public domain or a matter of public record. None of the above is based upon assumptions.
I DO find all of these things unacceptable.......If you feel differently, If this demonstates that I "hate everyone" , if I should accept any of these items.......please explain to me how and why........no "he said we shoulda let the guy die", or "you just think you are better than everyone else" (which I really felt sounded like a teenager girl with her hand on her hip), or "I do research before I speak"............give me some logical explainations with information please.
Do you really think that the tax errors are simply going to go away? Are you aware that TLT is responsible for meeting STATE requirements and we have not met those??
Blueberry,
I'd love to have you and others post here about your positive experiences in the Keweenaw. This is a public forum, open to all. Welcome!
Obviously some posters take issue with the Torch Lake Township government, and they have that right. No doubt some opinions expressed here are based on fact and some are based on misinformation.
However, one of the advantages of a forum like this is that people who have personal knowledge can correct any specific misinformation they see by posting the facts. If a poster explains how those facts can be verified, that will help every reader, as well as giving credibility to the poster. Any light you can shed on the matters posted here will be much appreciated -- by me, at least!
By the way, I love blueberries!
I can really only speak for myself, but based upon other posts I am assuming other feel the same.
There are serious, unresolved issues within TLT. I am not attempting, nor do I wish to, take pop shots at indivuals. I have spoken only of actions, documented words, etc. These issues require resolution; they will not go away......they will only get bigger. I would like them to be resolved. If I am incorrect in any aspect, I simply ask for factual, not opinionated, correction.
I have tremendous respect for the beauty and the natural resources of the UP....and I have been fortunate to have traveled many, many places, so I have a wide basis on which to judge. I have never been anywhere that compares. The area is rich with a strong history and strong culture and uncomparable natural resources.
I will say it again; things didn't used to be like this........and I remember when there were barns where many homes now stand in Bootjack.
I attended the Torch Lake Township meeting tonight to make sure that the board members know what is being posted here about the township and to offer them an opportunity to respond. In fact, Brian Cadwell was already aware of the statements posted here and pointed out correctly that they are anonymous allegations. He stated that he would be quite willing to discuss any of those allegations face to face at the public board meetings with anyone who had a beef with him.
As I see it, Brian's position on this is completely understandable. Most of us would feel the same way -- I sure would.
In fairness, I must also report that I saw nothing remotely suspicious or sinister in the conduct of the Torch Lake meeting. It was well-run and well-attended, and anyone was free to ask questions and to bring matters before the board.
Lynn Torkelson
Elsa is a true good citizen. She was at the board meeting to remind them what needed to be put into the budget to make sure TLT gets the grant money we have coming.
At the board meeting last night our moderator mentioned that he lives in TLT, but I see he didn't mention that in his post. Seems curious to me. Also he had a friendly conversation with Brian after the meeting. Is there something we don't know about?
To: Blueberry
The three stooges just can't keep from proving your point that they just hate everybody and everything. NOW!!! they think their is something wrong with having a friendly conversation and are trying to get people to think their is something going on between our moderator and Brian. I'm sorry but I can't help but laugh.
Blueberry says that she sees on this website HATRED of:
a dying young man.
the prosecuting attorney.
the fire dept.
the Gazette
and that there is a danger of a CANCER.
I've reread a lot of the previous postings and I can't find evidence of these accusations. Will she please point them out specifically to us?
She recommends catching a trout, killing a 10 pt. buck, snowmobiling and picking blueberries. Tag elder said to "walk in the fresh air." Those winter time pursuits are logical now but what was Chief's Coalition doing last summer? They surely weren't out enjoying the beauty of the peninsula unless it was when they were circulating recall petitions and putting political signs in yards and roadways. Why wasn't that a sign of hatred? They certainly weren't chasing the "good life" that Blueberry and Tag elder claim to love. Let's see if you two can straight-out answer some of the questions and quit beating around the bush.
True, I didn't think to mention in my post that I live in Torch Lake Township and -- in the spirit of full disclosure -- probably should have. I'm not quite a disinterested person when it comes to Torch Lake.
Moving on to your next point, I'm not sure what you think might be going on with me that you don't know about, but it should come as no surprise that I've read the posts here about Torch Lake with some interest and curiosity. I haven't joined in the discussion simply because I have nothing special to contribute.
My home is in the Point Mills area, pretty far away from any Bootjack controversies. I've never had a bad experience with any of the Torch Lake board members, past or present, and don't have any personal grievances on that score. I have no first-hand information about any of the past situations mentioned by you and the other posters concerning Torch Lake.
Like most folks, I want my township to be governed fairly and in accordance with the laws. I do pay pretty high taxes here, and the suggestion that some people use their connections to avoid paying their fair share definitely catches my attention. However, that's a pretty serious charge, and I'm certainly not about to jump to the conclusion that it's true based on something I read on the Internet.
To be honest, assessing the performance of the board is not something within my competence. I do know how computer programs work, how the Internet works, and how Web sites work. I know absolutely nothing about how the law says township governments are supposed to work. I have no training on how to look at tax assessments to judge which ones are fair and which are not. Over the years I've found that I do better when I avoid making judgments in ignorance.
If I did have personal knowledge about something amiss in the Torch Lake government, though, I wouldn't hesitate to ask the board for a public explanation. From what I have seen, I'd expect to get a straight-forward answer. This board is new and surely inherited some problems from the past. Again, it's beyond my competence to assess the extent of the problems they inherited and the time and effort it will take to fix them. But surely we should give them a reasonable opportunity to do that.
Let me conclude with this observation: No one at the Torch Lake Township meeting last night, including you, Great Scott, stood up to ask the board about any of the criticisms made in posts here -- even though there was every opportunity to do so. That's what I find curious.
Thanks for the impressions of last night's meeting Birch Bark and I think it was fair and forthright to let the Board know of these postings. I have tried to remain level-headed thru the responses to my questions here and I appreciated the comment Wuzup (though I too have been known to bark at times myself). I could reiterate the list of things that have been said to me here, but they all follow below in prior posts, so I won't waste the readers’ time. What amazes me is that my questions have been referred to as "cancer, bitter, filled with hatred" etc etc. But none of those people ever said "TLT is REALLY missing $40K?? “ or “No, we don’t want the firemen to act that way in public, we’ll address it at the next meeting” Or “Are you sure they said that”. All of the responses have been direct attacks, hysterics or melodrama. This forum is a microcosm of the community. You have people asking legitimate questions and instead of getting a response or request for clarification, it is met with “they even hate a dying young man.”
So, I’d ask you to look back again through the responses, and ask yourself……why are some people not seeing that questions will be asked, and will be answered, and that attacking the questioner, which seems to be the standard mode of operation these days, only leads to more questioning.
Doesn’t it amaze you that none of these responses seem to be concerned about $40Ktax shortage or a 75 cent property tax on 450 ft of lake front?? I asked questions and was met with hysteria….a big, giant smoke screen which leads me to question more.
I will continue to remind readers the three stooges are only interested spreading their cancer of hate,lies and half truths with no intention to help this community.
So THIS is where it all starts!! NOW your true colors are coming through.
The Bootjack Fire and Rescue Foundation was started so that the corrupt township board, that we had at that time, could not take the moneys CLEARLY donated to the Bootjack Fire Dept.
This board put a $5,000. down payment on a buildiing (when the owners stated $1,000. would be fine) a building that needed a TON of work. It was to small had NO parking and they put buckets in the middle of the floor to catch the rain. The Township lost $5,000. there.
The supervisor of this board took out a personal ad in the Gazette and billed it to the township (he planned to pay the township back) and billing this way saved him some $200. Can we all do this? Being taxpayers of TLT why not? This was a clear misappropriation of township funds!! And when asked about it , said supervisor got all heared up, said the person who voiced the question was out of order (when he clearly had the floor) banged his gavel and adjorned the meeting!!The packed hall roared. HA!! Is this anyway for a supervisor to act? Good thing the were recalled!!
Getting back to the foundation, whithout the HARD WORK of all of these volunteers we would not have a rescue truck. The moneys go toward a HEFTY payment on this truck. The generous donations by the people of this community buy every spine-board, air cast, and YES even band aid on this truck. Where do you think the money comes from to train our Volunteers? YOU GUESSED IT The Foundation. Sure the township pays the basic bills at the Fire Hall but, it is nothing more that what they pay for in Hubbell.
I, For one, will continue to support the hard working volunteers Bootjack has and it's comforting to know if, EVER needed they would be there for me (FOR ALL OF US) day or night 24/7.
Is the secret bank acct. (as you refer to) the the same one that got audited
regularly. That dosen't sound like a secret acct. As to the so called piddely comment. If you want to call exposing misappropriation of funds piddely go ahead. If your this upset over truth I wounder what you would say if people told half truths like you.
I have diagnosed you. You suffer from anal- cranial inversion. You work at the computer all day and don't see the great outdoors very often. Get up... go outside... breath deep...and stop crabbing about this trivial B.S.
Live alittle!
JRussell,
Now that I know what the Torch Lake Township meetings are like these days -- and my impression is a positive one, as you know -- I've reread all the posts here about Torch Lake Township to try to reconcile them with what I saw with my own eyes. It does seem to me that hard feelings from the past tend to color how things are viewed now, and that's unavoidable, I suppose. But I'm trying to sort things out for myself to understand what is really going on.
You brought up some specific points, and I'd like to ask you more about one of them. In three of your posts, you mention an individual paying 75 cents in taxes on 450 feet of waterfront property. On the face of it, that sounds absurd, but it's very specific -- not one of those "he said, she said" kind of claims.
My automatic reaction to such a startling statement is that there must be more to it than that. I'd like to get clear in my mind exactly what you are talking about.
You gave this case as an example of tax inequities that are a matter of public record. For a novice like me, is there an easy way to verify that in the public records? I have no idea even where to go to look over such records, and I'll bet there are many more like me.
And is there any fast way to locate such a thing, or does one have to wade through thousands of pages to dig it out? Is there a number or some other identifier you can give me that would lead me right to it? (I guess that's what every computer programmer would ask!)
In this specific case that you know about, I'd like to ask you a few questions that spring immediately to mind:
What I'm saying is that I'm not sure how I can make certain such a situation really exists, and whether, if it does exist, there might not be some logical explanation for it. For all I know, the law requires an assessment that produces such a low tax bill. Can you help me get clear on this?
Finally, if this case represents an actual tax inequity, it would clearly be a problem that the present board inherited. If the board corrects the tax inequities on the books, wouldn't that take care of it?
test
Birch Bark,
It's great to see a level headed individual who asks legitimate questions without hurling any insults. I've been wanting to go the the courthouse to look up some tax facts but had no idea where to start. Perhaps your questions--and the answers to them--will help me know how to do the research for myself. It would be great if this forum could be used for education instead of insults. I myself know very little about how taxes should be determined, when and how they can be changed, and how one ascertains if they are indeed fair.
Perhaps someone can tell me a good source to find this information.
Thanks again, Birch Bark, both for your posts and for creating and maintaining this site.
Mr. Torkelson:
The 75 Cent property tax is one example of many inequities currently in TLT. It was definately an inherited problem, as are all of the other tax issues, and not at all the result of the current board. In fact, it goes back many years and has yet to be corrected.
To my knowledge, this is an exteme example, but one of many. The tax problems include, incomplete tax cards (which is a serious issue with serious ramifications), properties for which homeowners have claimed Homestead exemptions erroniously and unlisted properties. The problems are extensive and serious. Supervisor Rheault stated that tax errors caused a $40 THOUSAND DOLLAR shortage to TLT in one year. This is documented in TLT Board meeting minutes.
I have stated the above because 1) I want to to be clear that the current Board has not caused these problems and 2) I do no want to imply that there are many examples of 75cent property taxes.
I will email you the information on this property. I don't feel that it is right to publicly single out one person, who is not a public official, when there are so many errors. I will email you this as you are the Moderator of this forum, if you are in agreement that it doesn't need to be posted publicly. That wouldn't be fair unless we wanted to list all of the errors. The problems are so extensive that it is not "looking for a needle in a haystack" to find them.
The unfortunate thing about the tax issues is that TLT cannot afford to fix them overnight. It seems to me, however, that a simple blanket statement that any property owners who think they may have properties Homesteaded in error should clear this up before June 29, 2006 (or whatever date is picked ) as the Assessor will be randomly auditing ......This is just a thought on how to assist in clearing up the problem at a lower cost to the Township. I am not a tax expert and not sure if there are mechanisms which prevent this from working, but I am going to do more reading.
I'd also like to add a note to BlueBerry, Tag Elder et al It is really OK to disagree with someone, but the manner in which you do it is really very disappointing. You claim to love the area, and state that people should walk outside etc etc. Why do you find it so difficult to simply be kind to people when you purport such a peaceful lifestyle? You may be very capable of contibuting to a solution and that would benefit all.
You are right not to post information that could single out a particular person or family for what are systemic problems. If you email me the information on how I can check it out, I won't post anything that would reveal the actual owner or parcel of land (nor will I do so in any other manner).
I will post, though, whether or not I succeed in finding it. I'll post the process and any snags or pitfalls I encounter along the way.
And if I do succeed, I'll still want to determine whether or not there is some logical explanation.
My idea is that going through this process will give me a feel for how much work it is to check a single parcel in the public records. Of course, I chose this particular example that you posted because it is vivid (to say the least) and because it looked like something I might be able to check myself.
I have never heard of anyone in TLT that didn't recognize and acknowledge the time and effort of the Fire Department Fundraisers. The problems stem from their behavior in public and the formation of the Foundation and refusal to provide Articles of Incorporation, Board Members etc.
Tag Elder - Since you mocked the term "secret" I assume the bank account is not a secret. Approximately how much money is in the account...just a ball park figure would do.
Blueberry- It is admirable that the Foundation was able to provide a "substantial" downpayment on the new equipment. Approximately how much was the downpayment?
As to a balance in the B.J.F.D. Acct. I don't need nor want to know.I think the community support is so good to the F.D. because MOST of the people know they are hard working can be trusted. They see the fruits of their donations in the modern state of the art equiptment and medical team that is servicing the people now and trying to be prepared for the furture.
JRussell
Tag Elder posted only twice Jan 14th 11:03 AM and 19 th 11:34 AM and I can't find where he or she says anything about mocking the term secret. Remember when you point your finger at someone their are three more fingers pointing back at you.
The "Truth"
My apologies. The comment should have been directed to you, I simply wrote the wrong name...that is OK, isn't it?
Here is your comment:
regularly. That dosen't sound like a secret acct.
So if it is not secret, as you mock (that means make fun of ) that word, approximately how much is in the account? Ball park figures will do.
And, I read your last post several times and did not undertand what you were trying to say, at all.
Look forward to hearing a straight answer from you...the truth.
downrighthonest
Who really cares if they have fifty dollars or a thousand. It dosen't mean anything. What good would it do me to know how much money is in your checkbook. whipee doo. If you want a mystery-may suggest the book store.
Russell
Don't aologies to me. you said it about Tag Elder.
As to your statement to Blueberry, you say the foundation was able to provide a substantial down payment on new equipment, then in your very next sentence you ASK Blueberry how much was the down-payment. I don't see where Blueberry said anything about the new equipment OR down payment. Please explain.
As to the post you read several times and did not understand. Thats ok it was addressed to someone else. I guess I can bark alittle to. I really don't like injustice and when I see old issues that were only ment to hurt our people in the first place dwelled on. It makes me want to put my armor on and fight
Your husband was on the BJFD for 20 to 30 years or so and HE KNOWS that nothing wrong was going on and bills were paid the way they were because it it was just plain easier for the people doing the work.(Nobody cared and life was good ) All of a sudden you got a burr in your saddle and are trying to make people believe your lies. By the way you new the bills were paid that way too. Funny it wasn't a problem until you got that burr in your saddle.
I just got tired of half truths and lies (You have made up some whoppers to) I 'm just getting started to expose the facts.
If I get stung for fighting for Truth, Justice and the American way so be it.
I have nothing to hide but am sure you will make something up.
Truth,
Your views are very welcome here. However, I've had to do a bit of snipping.
Except for mine, the posts on this board are anonymous unless the author elects to identify himself or herself. Please don't attempt to identify particular people in our community as the authors of the anonymous posts on these site.
I know from personal experience how unfair those linkages can be because, as the moderator of these discussions, I too have been identified incorrectly as the author of anonymous posts.
Thanks!
Watzup, I'm curious. After Birch Bark had "snipped" out an individual's name, why did you use that name again?
Anyone, I really would appreciate some insight in how to go about looking up tax records. Can anyone help?
Thanks
Wutzup,
Yes, it's too bad I didn't catch it last night. I can't monitor this site constantly, and any editing I do is bound to be after the fact (although, I hope, not always so long after the fact).
No matter how slow I've been to do my task, I can't allow someone in our community to be specifically tagged as being an anonymous poster here, no matter how absurd the identification looks today. This board will be online for years. Please understand.
Fair enough. I was trying to fight fire with fire and I'm not use to this level of thinking. Please bare with me. I will try to behave.
Sincerely,
The Truth
Regarding Tax Records:
There is some information on the MTA (Michigan Township Authority) website regarding Homestead Exemptions etc. This site, however, provides a good basis of information even though it is from a different township:
http://www.cityofgrandblanc.com/government_assessor.html
Some of the specifics may be different, but it provides a basic overview, written in English and not Accountant-ese.
A few internet searches will provide additional information.
I think it is good that others are starting to look into this. If someone does wish to post information here on how to search, etc, I think that's great. However, I feel that information should come from a person who is trained in/responsible for that information, and not myself.
To answer Torkelsons questions re 75cents - it is a matter of record at the courthouse.
Property No. 31-014-306-004-00
Property Class. 301 - Industrial
Assessed Value - $100.00
2004 Wnter Tax - $0.75 paid Dec 21, 2004
Legal Description - in part - 7.538 acres - 480 ft of shoreline on Torch Lake - approx. 533 ft along M26
Property No. 31-014-307-004-00
Property Clas. 301 - Industrial (this classification is voided by the permanently ocuppied mobile home set up on the site)
Assessed Value - $2600.00
2004 Winter Tax - $121.13 paid Dec 21, 2004
Legal Descriptio - in part - 4.50 acres 290 feet of shoreline on Torch Lake - 42'35" along M26
Both these properties are registered to Meninc Incorporated 200 Calumet Stree, Lake Linden.
They were originally assessed by the farmer supervisor (oops - I meant former) who may well be a member of the corporation
Your suggestive comment about the former supervisor is in extremely poor taste. He is terminally ill.
Snowshoe, I am sure I can speak for all and no one would wish poor health on anyone. These comments have nothing to do with his health. He was elected to do a job, a very public and controversial one at that. He made a lot of decisions over his time in office, some good.....some bad and he made some big mistakes. True? The fact that he isn't well doesn't mean we turn our back on issues that concerned him. In fact, too many times people in this group have turned their back or ear and that is in part, the reason TL is in such a mess! However...if one learns from mistakes, then good can come from it. I feel that is happening now AND in this forum!
Having said that, can anyone tell me what BC's plan of attack is for the14 Point Plan (I beleive that is the correct term for the system that rates townships and identifies areas that are not in compliance with the state laws)? I'm curious and anxious to see some hard work with results....before the election this year!
Since BC's plan of attck has not been recorded by the Twp Clerk, I invite him to publish it here - now.
He might also publish the findings of 14pt review so that all may see why we failed & what the problems are that have to be solved .
Based upon the number of “posters” now joining into this message board, many others recognize the severity of TLT problems. Also, these are not “old issues”…..they are unresolved issues. It is clear that there are many, many issues and to blame one person for “stirring things up” is false.
I want to state very clearly that the "snipped person" whose name is now removed had absolutely nothing, not one iota, to do with my looking into the state of TLT.
I was really disturbed by this claim because my interest was piqued when public records were stored in a cow barn and the Freedom of Information Act and to be utilized to retrieve them (after several private and public requests). That is a clear violation of the law (which can be read on the MTA website) and simply defies common sense. Not one of the supporters of the Cow Barn Record keeper tapped him on the back and said "we need the records in the Township office, not the cow barn" They all stood silently while other Board members asked for the records publicly. This is all a matter of public record. Now, before you can use the "he's sick" defense........at the same time the Cow Barn Record Keeper prepared, signed and submitted the 990's for the Bootjack Fire and Rescue Foundation. So, he must not have been too ill at that time if you trusted him to prepare the returns.
I will say it again, his illness is tragic. However, his actions prior to his illness, were, in some cases illegal. The hidden records are a prime example. You can look up the law on the MTA website. I would think his “friends”, though they are not responsible for his actions, would have encouraged him to do the right thing. The second event that caused me to look into issues, was the fact that the Foundation claimed to be a "private" corporation. It is a violation of IRS regulation NOT to provide the information to ANYone who asks (just look at the top right corner of the 990). However, when someone tries to hide something that shouldn't be hidden....it causes others to look. I equate it with a teenager trying to sneak in the door. "The Truth"...I assume that you must be associated with The Foundation because you have stated that the books are "audited regularly" according to your prior post. You would not be able to make a statement like this if you were not closely associated., or a member of the Foundation. I'll address the "audit" term later, but what I really want to say is that the behavior contained herein is really unbelievable for someone who is supposed to save lives, make instant decisions under pressure etc etc. I'm sure this will unleash a stream of backlash from you, but it clearly proves the point that we have members of the Fire Department who may have the skill to rescue someone but lack the professionalism, which is achieved off the field. To be fair, this is not an isolated incident, but one similar to the public behavior that I have seen from cohorts. And that simply must be stopped. It really degrades all of the hard work that is done and is admired by EVERYONE in the community. Your behavior on these posts, is very demonstrative of what I, and others, have seen in public from various members. I have not seen this from other volunteer Fire Departments.
It is very clear from the new posts that the issues will no longer be swept under the rug. Rather than accusing ANYone of “stirring things up” it is proven that these issues must be addressed, and will not go away. I hope you reconsider your placing blame on one person ….the issues are the problem, not the people who want them addressed and resolved.
You were completely wrong, at least in my case, that the "snipped person" had anything to do with this. And why aren't you concerened with FORTY THOUSAND DOLLARS..............why do you instead attack someone (erroneously) for "stirring things up"???
I have asked several times how much the “substantial donation” for the down payment was that Blueberry referenced. If Blueberry knows that it’s substantial, she must know the approximate amount.
The question remained unanswered.
I asked “The Truth” how much, ball park figure, was in the Foundation’s non-secret account that he says is “audited regularly.
I would think that it would be front page news that The Foundation was able to make a $7000 down payment on Equipment in FY2004. It should have been front page news…especially since there was $20, 0000 (twenty thousand dollars) left in the bank at the end of FY2004. Since its inception (which is only a short period of time) the Bootjack Fire and Rescue Foundation has been able to raise in excess of $160,000.
I cannot understand why they are not shouting this from the rooftops.
All of this information is available on www.guidestar.org All Nonprofit organizations must provide these records to anyone who asks. You can also contact the head of the organization and he has ten (I believe that is the correct number) of days to provide you with a hardcopy. He is allowed to charge a very nominal copying fee (ie 10 or 15 cents/page).
Perhaps the money has all gone to good use………but what is the secret? It really was front page news and most non-profits would have been shouting their success.
(note: I have used round numbers....if you want the exact amount, go to guidestar)
Wutsup
Regarding still driving his car. He has not been able to drive for at least 6 months.You are a rumor spreader at best! and a liar.
I see you didn't apologize for accusing Tag Elder for something he or she didn't even do. Now I see your at it again. I don't see where Blueberry made any comment about any downpayment. You have a bad habbit of putting words in peoples mouths. You make yourself look like a fool.
There ya go at the popshots again, The Truth....... a stellar example of my point.
Also, look up the word "audit" which is conducted by an individual independent of the organization, generally a CPA, and not the person who prepared the books. You claim to be "The Truth" and state that the Foundation's books are "audited" regularly. I have experience with public and nonprofit corporations and have never heard of one similar to the Foundation that was "audited" regularly. An audit results in an Audit Report. Are you sure the books are audited regularly?
Here's a cut and paste of Blueberry's comments.....in case you are not aware (sic) signifies that the misspellings are those of the orignal writer and not me. I should have done the same on your posting. Thought you may be confused by the term, so I explained.
Blueberry's post:
Getting back to the foundation, whithout the HARD WORK of all of these volunteers we would not have a rescue truck. The moneys (sic) go toward a HEFTY payment on this truck. The generous donations by the people of this community buy every spine-board, air cast, and YES even band aid on this truck. Where do you think the money comes from to train our Volunteers? YOU GUESSED IT The Foundation. Sure the township pays the basic bills at the Fire Hall but, it is nothing more that what they pay for in Hubbell.
Thank-you for proving my point. where does it say downpayment?
The Truth-
You are right. It does say payment toward...or whatever the words are.
However, I think you will be the only one in Bootjack to spend so much time on semantics.......I think others will be more interested in $160,000 The Foundation has earned in 4 years (approximate numbers to be clear) and that they have $20.000 (twenty thousand ) dollars in the bank consistantly....even after paying $7000 (seven thousand) TOWARD a piece of equipment.
These facts are far more interesting, to most folks, than downpayment vs toward .....or significant vs. hefty. In the end nobody will care about semantics and your point is moot.
Since there seem to be so many accusations, assumptions, and questions aired on recent postings, I would suggest that we compile a list of questions that can/should be answered and someone (Birch Bark, maybe?) direct them to the appropriate source for an answer. I understand that the township clerk reads this web site, would she take those that are appropriate to the township board or would Great Scott or would Lynn? There are some that could/should be answered directly by the Fire Chief and whoever heads the Foundation. By the way, who DOES head the foundation? Is his/her name secret and can we see a list of the board of directors? Are their meetings open to the public? Who can join the Foudation? Who can join the fire dept. auxiliary? I believe Bird's Eye had some questions, too, and I know Wuzup and J.Russell did. Let's get them all in order and who will present them?
There seems to be a lot of interest in getting things straightened out and running in the right direction. Let's all work toward that end and forget the name calling and accusations. Let's get on with finding solutions and making Torch Lake Township what it should be rather than the laughing stock of the Copper Country.
Today I went to the courthouse to see whether or not I could verify the claims of JRussell and downrighthonest that only 75 cents in taxes were paid on 7.5 acres of property with 480 feet of Torch Lake shoreline, and over 500 feet of frontage on M-26. I was also interested in checking the other property that was mentioned: 4.5 acres with 290 feet of Torch Lake shoreline and 42 feet of frontage on M-26, which was said to have a tax bill of $121.13.
Both of the claims turned out to be accurate, and both properties are owned by Meninc Incorporated, as downrighthonest stated. However, I have yet to determine whether I can obtain a logical explanation for these seemingly mistaken tax bills. Fairness demands that I look for one before drawing any conclusions.
7.538 acres with 480 feet of Torch Lake frontage
This property was taxed $1.54 for Summer 2004 and $0.75 for Winter 2004, making the total taxes for the year $2.29.
In looking over the tax history of this property, I noticed something unusual. Instead of increasing in value over the years (as mine always does), this property has experienced a marked decline in both State Equalized Value (SEV) and Taxable Value:
PARCEL 014-306-004-00
Year SEV Taxable Taxes
1998 28,200 19,860 986.561999 2,500 2,500 157.392000 2,700 2,547 159.442001 100 100 4.652002 100 100 4.622003 100 50 2.222004 100 51 2.29
4.50 acres with 290 feet of Torch Lake Frontage
This property was taxed $79.71 for Summer 2004 and $121.13 for Winter 2004, making the total taxes for the year $200.84.
The value of this parcel, too, experienced a sharp decline, but recovered a bit in 2004:
PARCEL 014-307-004-00
1998 14,600 10,310 491.111999 2,500 2,500 116.992000 2,700 2,547 119.042001 100 100 4.652002 100 100 4.622003 100 100 85.302004 2,600 2,600 200.84
I have no idea why the taxes for 1999 and 2000 were different for these two parcels when they had the same value, nor why the 2003 tax for the second parcel jumped so much when the value stayed the same. (My ignorance of these matters is showing here.)
The Equalization Office
So that's what I found out. For other novices like me, I'm going to spell out how I went about it.
The Equalization office itself is on the 4th floor of the new section of the courthouse (thanks Wutzup!), and the elevator near the parking ramp goes right up there. The office location is well-marked and easy to find.
The folks in the Equalization office are exceptionally pleasant, and answered my novice questions very patiently.
I told them what I was looking for and why, and they brought me two books of computer printouts that contain all of the tax assessment information for Torch Lake Township. There is a counter at the entrance to the office that I used as a workspace. It had room on the right side for both the Torch Lake books and my notepad. People came in from time to time and did business to my left as I looked through the books. There was not any extra space, though, so I was lucky that no one else came in on a similar mission at the same time.
The books themselves are organized by parcel number, with a cross-reference section at the beginning of the first book. The information is in old-fashioned computer printout style, but the upper-case headers pretty well spell out what the lines of information beneath them represent. I looked up the printout of my own parcel so I could see how to associate the information printed there with the information on my tax bills.
A line of mysterious codes and amounts below the address of the property turned out to be coded information identifying government services provided to that particular parcel -- specific services that result in charges appearing on the tax bill. For example, I saw that my garbage fee, 80.00, was on that line.
The nice folks there also explained to me, when I asked, the significance of the last 2 digits of the parcel number, which were usually, but not always, -00. It turns out that the -00 represents a parent parcel. When the parent parcel is split, the child parcel gets a different suffix, say -25, but the rest of the number remains the same as its parent. When such a split occurs, naturally, the value of the parent property declines by the amount assigned to the child parcel.
It was very easy to find the current assessments for the parcels I was looking for. I also leafed through the books looking for other unusual-looking assessments, and saw some that looked questionable -- but I did not examine them in great detail. I had the two I wanted, and did not want to wear out my welcome.
The Treasurer's Office
Having verified the assessments, I went to the Treasurer's office on the second floor of the old part of the courthouse. Again I was assisted with great courtesy and patience. The tax records, too, are public, and the folks there kindly gave me printouts for the two parcels I requested.
I had had no idea that the printouts would contain, in addition to the details for the specific year I requested (2004), a 10-year tax history of each parcel. Those tax history printouts provided the information listed above.
When I explained my reasons for asking about these particular parcels, the people there (looking at my printouts) seemed to feel that a mistake might possibly have occurred, but they really don't deal with those types of questions. They explained that, in general, they get involved with the specifics of a particular parcel only when a delinquency occurs.
The folks at the Treasurer's office did mention, though, that an owner is responsible for paying taxes that should have been assessed in the past but, through error, were not. That doesn't go back forever, of course, and they were not quite sure what the cutoff point was. They did mention, too, that the county itself has a considerable interest in appraisals being correct.
Now What?
The folks at the courthouse were kind enough to give me some guidance on how to find a logical explanation for the assessments I looked at -- if there is one. I'll follow up on that and post here what I find out.
Clearly some tempers are frayed about this and other matters, but I hope we can proceed calmly and purposefully to a satisfactory resolution of any problems that do exist. As JRussell pointed out several times, the new township board did not create them. For myself, I've seen nothing to suggest that the new board will be anything but diligent in working toward whatever solutions might be needed.
Okay, I see it now. (Sorry I'm so dense.)
The difference between the taxes paid in 1999 and 2000 for the two parcels in question must be due to additional services provided to the first parcel during those years.
The jump from $4.62 to $85.30 from 2002 to 2003 for the second parcel must be due to a garbage charge that became necessary when the corporation established a branch office (or something like that) in the trailer at that site.
You can stop laughing at me now!
your suggestion of a branch office is quaint .
the mobile home is the current residence of the owner's son. You are correct that a re-assessment is warranted.
The Supervisor should direct the Assesor to do so.
Not driving a car at all dumbass.
There are many errors within our property base. Homestead Errors, it seems to me, is the easiest to address. An individual can only claim ONE property as their Principal Residence. Back taxes and interest must be paid when the exception is recinded. I would think indivuduals would want to clear this up, but if not ....Why hasn't the School Board stepped forward on this issue?
From Michigan State website:
persons who own and occupy their home as their Principal Residence may claim an exemption from the 18 mills levied by local school districts for operating purposes. However, only one Homestead Exemption can rightfully be claimed.
Each of these incorrectly claimed exemptions is taking money away from local school districts and places a serious financial burden on the state, because the State School Aid Fund (SAF) makes up the difference in each district’s per pupil foundation allowance," Rising explained. "The Department of Treasury and the participating counties will vigorously pursue wrongly claimed exemptions in order to recoup those revenues." homestead exemption. The property owner, themselves, state that they meet the qualifications.
I agree it's more important to get things straightened out than to continue with namecalling and accusations. However, I am not sure it's fair to approach the present Board with a whole list of questions at one time. I also do not feel the Board should answer questions from people who are unwilling to identify themselves. I do not know who any of you posters are, nor do I want to know, but I would guess some of know each other. Why don't you get together and write a letter to the Board? Acknowledge the problems are not neccesarily their doing. Presesnt them with a list of questions and ask them to address several in each meeting--until all questions are answered. (This would give them time to look into things themselves.) Then sign the letter!
To those of you who have given help in how to look things up, thank you. To Birch Bark, thank you for all you are doing. It's great you are looking for facts and sharing them with us.
One who cares
Watzup,
You mentioned I would get your point if a certain individual's name had not been deleted. I read that post before anything was changed.
Also, you referred to a posting Big Guy had made on November 9th. I scrolled all the way down to the beginnin of November and could not fint that posting. What's up with that?
This is what is registered with the Michigan Dept of Labor. The same information is on the tax returns, I believe.
I'll have to re-read the IRS regulations but I believe you can request hardcopies of their 990's (nonprofits' tax returns) over the phone or by US Mail.
I think TLT pays Fire Dept bills as they are presented, but I'm not sure. It seems to me, though, that if the Board had this information, it would make for a better budget. I just cannot understand why nobody knew the Foundation had raised this much money. It is a difficult task to raise $40.000 a year..........in excess of $160,000
Searched for: BOOTJACK FIRE & RESCUE FOUNDATION, INC. ID Num: 766993 Entity Name: BOOTJACK FIRE & RESCUE FOUNDATION, INC. Type of Entity: Domestic Nonprofit Corporation Resident Agent: DAN M SARAZIN Registered Office Address: 49676 N BOOTJACK RD LAKE LINDEN MI 49945 Mailing Address: 47715 BOOTJACK RD LAKE LINDEN MI 49945 Formed Under Act Number(s): 162-1982 Incorporation/Qualification Date: 5-15-2000 Jurisdiction of Origin: MICHIGAN Number of Shares: 0 Year of Most Recent Annual Report: 05 Year of Most Recent Annual Report With Officers & Directors: 05 Status: ACTIVE Date: Present
Onewhocares:
Thanks for your input. You make some valid points.
I would ask you, too, to read back through the posts. I believe that there have been many legitimate questions asked here. The responses were attacks, name calling (some really vulgar), melodrama and........well. no answers. The behavior in response to legitimate questions, as evident in the history of postings, is what has gone on at the meetings when questions are asked.
I do believe that we have to go back in time a bit and clear up how we got to this point. Not to point fingers....but to make certain it does not happen again. The points I raise are relative to issues and circumstances, not individuals.
If you look back, I asked questions about tax issues, the secrecy of the Foundation, the need for a Hovercraft ect. In a community that is running properly, the responses would have been "there are/are not tax issues", the hovercraft does this, this and this", and "here's what the Foundation raises". This has not occurred and, thus, the problems still exist.
Providing a written list of questions, signed, would add no more validity to my questions. In a community that is operating properly, that's the approach I would have taken.......but I'm not going to a meeting and have the peanut gallery scream, hiss, jump up and down (all has been done) to try and create a better Township. It would add no more validity to the questions I raise.
When the last Board started asking for Foundation records and started setting money aside to address the tax inequities...what happend?? Immediately a recall campaign was launched under the guises that:
1) a supervisor was appointed too quickly (a recommendation from Michigan Tax Authority to find an immediate replacement)
2) TLT Board wouldn't let the Firemen use the Hovercraft (TLT attorney told the Board it could not sign the contract presented by the Foundation)
3)Purchase of the Last Drop (discussed over a period of many months and actually initiated by Supervisor Rheault)
Clearly all of these issues were not factual.........and now that people are starting to look into the tax records ...and now that we realize The Foundation has a large sum of money....don't you think that the timing of the recall is quite odd???
Based upon what happened to the former Board members, No, I do not wish to stand up publicly and ask these questions. Some of the posts below will also second why I'm not going to do that.
I do believe that the current Board has a tough task and I wish them success.
onewhocares:
you asked about the prior post from "BigGuy".
Here is the date:
Torch Lake Politics Posted: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 8:25 PM
( I didn't paste the whole thing, because I thought you could just scroll down)
to clarify my own words..........
when I said "a community that is not running properly" it was in NO way intended to slam the current Board.
I believe that people should be able to stand up a meeting and ask questions without a peanut gallery in the audience. This has not occured for years.
Hi JRussell,
You may not believe this (I hardly believe it myself), but I HAD scrolled down and found nothing between November 4th and November 11th. AFter I read your posting, I scrolled down again--still nothing. I left this site, came back to it, and when I scrolled down, there it was--along with a number of others from November 9th.
Does Anyone have an explanation for this. And please, be kind--it really did happen.
onewhocares-
I really, really, REALLY had to laugh. Computers are strange creatures, aren't they? I have no doubt at all that happened to you and I have absolutely no explanation whatsoever.
I'm glad you were able to find it........and, trust me, you don't want me giving you computer advice.
onewhocares,
I'm not sure why this happened (and haven't seen it myself), but it would have to have been the result of a program bug in code written by your (sheepish) moderator. I'll see if I can find it.
Let me mention also that I'm going to start archiving the Keweenaw Viewpoints section as I already do with Around the Kitchen Table. For a long time, the volume of posts did not warrant doing so, but things have changed! The effect will be to speed up the loading of the page.
If you don't ever ask the question publically, how do you expect to get an answer? I realize this is a public forum, but coming right out at a meeting and asking your questions will get a better response than an anonymous question posted on the internet. Submit them in writing and ask for a response, if you really don't want to attend in person.You attendance in person may get a better response and a better opportunity for you to articulate exactly what you are looking for. The board may have questions for you about your questions. You say you aren't criticizing the current board for the sins of the past... but you maintain you won't go to a meeting to be heckled by the "peanut gallery" as has happened in the past. Give the new board the benefit of the doubt that they would keep the meeting and the comment period orderly and allow those who want to speak the opportunity to do so without others interupting.
One Who Cares, you have some good points in your post 1/24 at 9:30. For me, it's still a trust issue. I am not sure where some of the board members true allegiance is at this point. When you are buddy buddy with a group like the Coalition, will one really stand up for the Twp. and not what their neighbors want them to do?? I'm not so sure. Hasn't happened for years. The last group that tried to change things and comply with state laws was ousted. I'm waiting to see if this board has the backbone to take on some of these challenges.
I have found this forum very enlightening even if I don't know the other posters and even if I don't always agree. After the brutal recall effort of the Coalition, I didn't even know if I wanted to continue living in TL. I was disgusted. TL was a joke to all that read the DMG. I'm sure others had people in town asking what the heck was going on in TL and who certain people were that were always quoted in the paper etc. We were a joke....township, board and even the BJFD!
I was really happy to find this forum, amazing what web searches will bring up! It's nice to know there are others fed-up with the "old family" school of thought. And it's good to have input from some of the people on the Coalition. I still think we are making progress even if it's making some people uncomfortable. I find it rather interesting that a certain group of posters have seemed to disappear now that some hard and rather surprising facts are in print in a public forum. Maybe we are on to something.
There is a lot of opportunity for this Board, I hope we see good results soon. It's up to them to show us (the taxpayers AND voters!) that they are working for the township as a whole. Can they do it? Sure. Will they? Stay tuned.
My mistake, onewhocares post was at 12:30, not 9:30 AM, regarding writing a letter with questions to be answered by the Board. Maybe my computer is playing tricks on me too!
Iceman and Onewhocares:
I appreciate your input and I believe that you are sincere in your suggestions and that is something I respect greatly. I will consider your thoughts more.
My initial response, after some consideration, however is somewhat negative. If you go back in the postings you will see legitimate questions and the responses prove that the same condition exists. Questions are met with immature, sophmoric responses that do not even make sense.
Quite frankly, I already knew how much money the Foundation had.......over $160 thousand........which I think is really $200 thousand, but haven't rechecked. I wanted to give the Foundation a chance to openly state it (after other posters' comments that the Foundation made a substantial payment toward equipment and another poster's comment that their books were "audited regularly")
For the good of the Township, those that are not aware this is occuring should be. Those that are not aware that the coalition for "Concerned taxpayers and Citizens" told blatant lies this summer should be aware. Why did this group attempt to recall a Board who was seeking to fix the tax errors?? Ask youreself, why why why. Do you really and truly believe that it was because of a coffee shop?? That is equivilant to less than two years of Homestead erorr exemptions erroneously claimed (assuming Supervisor Rheault's report to be correct)........something that didn't concern the "Concerned Citizens and Taxpayers" one iota!
I think the hope for fixing these problems lies outside of the Board. I have looked into things and I am more than willing to be corrected if I'm wrong on any issue (........but please don't argue about words like "toward" vs downpayment when we are talking about $160,0000 ) The problems are not limited to what has been listed here.
Please look back and read some of the comments that have been directed at me......and look at my questions/statements. Honestly with the crap (not a word I like, but can think of no other way to state it) that has been slung at me in these postings.....I don't know why an intelligent and honest person would want to be subjected to this as a Board Member. It is all proven here very clearly and I feel even more sorry for the recalled board members after seeing some of the postings on this sight.
People who've posted here about remaining anonymous on the Web might be interested in this article from today's New York Times: Privacy for People Who Don't Show Their Navels.
"People in the world are more interested in anonymity now than they were in the 1990's," when the popularity of the Internet first surged, said Chris Palmer, technology manager at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit group in San Francisco dedicated to protecting issues like free speech on the Web. Increasingly, consumers appear to be downloading free anonymity software like Tor, which makes it harder to trace visits to Web sites, online posts, instant messages and other communication forms back to their authors. Sales are also up at companies like Anonymizer.com, which among other things sells software that protects anonymity.
"People in the world are more interested in anonymity now than they were in the 1990's," when the popularity of the Internet first surged, said Chris Palmer, technology manager at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a nonprofit group in San Francisco dedicated to protecting issues like free speech on the Web.
Increasingly, consumers appear to be downloading free anonymity software like Tor, which makes it harder to trace visits to Web sites, online posts, instant messages and other communication forms back to their authors. Sales are also up at companies like Anonymizer.com, which among other things sells software that protects anonymity.
Great discussion here, by the way. I'd like to see more discussions like these.
Do you know first hand--witnessed it yourself--that the "chief" was uncivil to the former treasurer while her husband was "touch and go in the hospital in Marquette"? Also, how can one person realisticly guarantee another individual's behavior.
I thought this discussion was beginning to focus on getting answers to questions and try to put the past behind us. Please let that happen.
You are still only interested in your old dead issues, spreading rumors and attacking the good people that bring more good work to this community in 1 mounth than you will in your life time. You are obesessed about this and it shows. I hope you can find a positive direction to go in life. The one you are living leads nowhere.
PEOPLE
Wutzup Is proving my point over and over and over again. Is he ever going to start telling the truth. His rumors, half truths and lies are getting BORING.
Anyone can read back and see for themselfs he is not intrested in progress. Just trying to make people he dislikes look bad. as long as he tell these lies I will continue fight to expose him. Wutzup I don't dislike you! just your lies.
"Truth"
www.websters.com
I don't see where I mentioned a meeting in my post to you. More importantly (at least to me) I don't see that you answered my first question--which I have included again. (See below.) You did answer my other question, but keep in mind inappropriate behavior would have to be proved--and that is sometimes difficult to do.
Posted: Wednesday, January 25, 2006 11:04 AM Watzup,
Do you know first hand--witnessed it yourself--that the "chief" was uncivil to the former treasurer while her husband was "touch and go in the hospital in Marquette"?
It's refreshing to learn that you don't dislike Wuzup. You accuse her of printing lies. WHY don't you tell us what the lies are and for us simple folk, just list them? Why are you so determined to know who she is? Why not work at exposing her lies instead of her identity? Let's get on with solutions and quit the petty bickering.
I consider this to be a problem in TLT and therefore, discussing it is not gossip but rather brining it into the forefront, so that it can be prevented in the future. It is an example, not an isolated incident.
I would ask you, would you want to go to a Dr who discusses cases on a barstool or by the mailbox? Would you respect an accountant or lawyer who gossips, not discusses, cases that involves people in sensitive situations? Would you respect a teacher who enjoys discussing students' grades and information that most of us do not want to hear? My answer to all of the above, for myself, is no...And when I see people in the position of saving lives I would think they would have a greater respect for the sensitivity of critical situations and quite honestly, not much interest in discussing it.
ALL small towns have a gossip chain, but when people, who are in certain positions, share and/or enjoy discussing those situations it degrades the respect they receive based upon their job/position. Personally, I don't want to hear the details of someone else's situation which I consider private information.
That being said, when a pattern of behavior exists, in my opinion you don't have to prove the specifics of one incident. Don't you think it would have been admirable for the person in charge of the Fire Department I to stand up publicly at a meeting and say, "we hope everything is all right and that he gets better soon and I am very sorry that the community seems to be discussing this." That, in my opinion is what a good leader would do.
And, I do believe very strongly that a leader of any organization, volunteer or professional, is responsible for the behavior and perception of its members. They would garner a great deal more respect...and when I had a question about a Hovercraft, I would just go to that source and say "what's this Hovercraft machine".
I did hear from more than one person, so I assume it to be true, that last summer several members of the BJFD were outside of the Township Meeting hooting and hollering, in attempts to disrupt the meeting, and jumping up and down. I can only imagine how foolish they looked and their leader supposedly stood, with his arms crossed, looking out the window and chuckling.
Would you want to go to a Dr who acted in such a manner? How much would you respect him?
This is a very easy thing to fix and would undeniably create a much stronger Fire Department and ZERO cost. To be fair to all involved, we cannot change what has occured in the past but we certainly can take steps to ensure the same situation doesn't occur and that is what must happen.
Wuzup-
All this time I thought you were male, wuzup! Simply out of idle (or, based on your vocabulary idol) curiousity I've wondered who you and a few other folks are.
In the end, I know it doesn't matter because it is the information that is important and not the indivudual.
That's 'bout all I have to say regarding identity...still irreleveant to me other than curiousity.
Birdseye
I think sometimes you have to give a guy a way to get out of a situation without too much egg on his face, even if he deserves the egg (I am not saying that is or is not the situation here...so "certain posters" don't pick apart at this point, please)
I agree that township meetings are not the place to discuss specific health issues. However, he would have gotten a great deal more respect from me if he had taken a course of action to apologize on behalf of the community. I say this because he clearly views himself as a leader of the community as he's frequently quoted on issues outside of the Fire Dept realm ...and even as an ordinary citizen it would have been a big move.
I, myself, did apologize to the effected people and I am neither a leader within the community nor one who spread the word around.
Knowing this "word" was going on around the community, if he would have stood up and said something, my own reaction would have been "whadda guy". I don't limit this just to him....I would have equal respect for anyone, particularly those in political disagreement with the effected parties, to have taken such a step forward.
Once people are willing to do this, the insipid gossip will cease.
OK JRussell, now I think we are on the same page. I too agree the Chief really should apologize. I am assuming you are referring to the way he/his men behaved on the rescue call. At the very least, a public comment letting people know that these allegations are taken seriously and will be looked into. All it would take is a call to the people involved to get this one figured out! Don't hold your breath!! On a lighter note....
When will we have a new garbage truck?? Wonder if we'll be able to hear this one rambling down the road miles before it ever reaches our garbage cans??!!!! Hearing that truck is always a nice heads-up that I can make one last dash to the can (to the garbage can that is!)! I'd say we are more than due for this piece of equipment!
Hello once again,
Wutzup, we seem to have a knack for misunderstanding each other. Let me clear up a few things on my part.
1. I was not asking if you were at the residence when the First Responders arrived. It never entered my mind that you might have been.
2. I was not trying to guess your identity or that of anyone else on this forum. Although I do not believe anonymity is always the way to go, that is the way of this forum, and I respect that. (I have not revealed my own identity and would be uncomfortable to do so--and that does not reflect on any individual, group, or point of view--except perhaps myself.). Note: The bold face print is not to holler at anyone; it is simply for emphasis.
3. What I did ask (or was trying to ask) was if you yourself heard or saw the chief making insulting comments about anyone. Unless I am mistaken (and I could be; it gets confusing scrolling back down through everything), you have not yet said if you yourself heard the chief do things he has been accused of. I do not think it would be revealing your identity to give a simple yes or no answer to that.
4. I am trying very hard to be fair and open-minded. I do plan on going to the courthouse myself to look up somethings. I have also been trying to research tax laws regarding homesteading and how and when taxes are raised (or lowered). I do have a limited amount of time to do that--and I imagine that is true of most of the posters here.
5. Much of what I have read here is upsetting to me--some of it because it is or might be true. Much of it, however, upsets me because it mi;ght not be true but is being said anyway.
This is already too long, so I won't say anymore for now.
Thank you,
I hear so many people say such nice things about the BJFirst Responders. They were so quick to respond, very professional and compassionate to the needs of the familes.
I am glad that you are looking into things independently. I hope that more people do and, in my opinion, that is one of the primary advantages of this forum.
The statements that I have made can all be verified through public records or occured in a public forum. When I have made statements that I was told, I clearly stated that. I have only brought up statements when they were verified by more than one source. I do not think that it's fair to anyone to make random statements. Also, I have done my own checking before stating things as fact 1. to be fair and 2. because you cannot make absolute statements before you verify them.. I hope that I've been clear in the areas where I've asked questions.
Also - I meant to mention that if you chose to look up Foundation records on www.guidestar.org you must sign up...but it is free. You do not need a premium membership in order to look at the 990's.
I do have some thoughts on how the new Board can improve things and I will share those later. They are nothing more than my thoughts and ideas. I do not believe they can fix everything, but in some areas they can make a difference.
Snowshoe:
I agree. I, too, have heard good things about the Bootjack Fire Department's response time and on-the-scene performance. It is impressive. It is the off-the-field behavior that I find troubling...and I think that is ironic because, in my estimation, it is much more difficult to become skilled in rescue and saving of lives than it is to stand outside a meeting hall without hooting and hollering. It is a shame that the on-the-scene performance is denegraded by this behavior.
Further, I really find it very hard to understand why The Foundation never openly stated how much money they've made. I hope that somebody can shed some light on that for me because, honestly, it makes no sense to me. $160 Thousand is a lot of money. Do you have any ideas or explanation that I am overlooking?
I appreciate your input snowshoe, and most especially the manner in which you communicated your thoughts.
Wutzup
Just keep proving to the 5 to 10 readers on this website you are obsessed about the fire chief (who is a great guy) your obsession blindes you to the point you try to drag an entire volunteer organization through mud. Some 30 plus familes. Are you like 12 years old or something. Do you really think people believe your BS.
What do you think a fire dept. runs on. water! One firemans salary in a manned fire dept. is about 40,000 (just for one man). I know better than to believe you. But I just hope they have what they need. Trucks cost $100,000 to a half a million dollars. They will need every penny. MAYBE thats why they work so hard to raise money and not sit on their butts like you and do nothing to help. Heck! YOU ARE SO counter productive you try to hurt the fire protection in the community.
To ALL
I asked one BJFD member how many calls they think they went on in 2005 and (guessing ) they said more than 150. I asked another and they said about 170.
Those people respond to the call for help about EVERY OTHER DAY.
Year after year nite after nite. THATS DEDICATION. And Wutzup hides behind his keyboard with mile wide yellow streek down his back attacking that kind of dedication. You are pathetic.
I have some more information to report on the lakefront properties I looked into and reported on in my posts here January 23. As some of you might remember, I first got interested in this situation because JRussell stated that he knew of a large lakefront property had been taxed only $0.75 for Winter 2004.
I replied with some skepticism, but downrighthonest posted the parcel number of the land in question, plus that of another parcel also owned by the same corporation. With that, I accepted the challenge of checking on those claims myself. On January 23 I reported here that I had found the claims made about both parcels to be correct, and I also described the (not-so-difficult) process needed to find that out, which was completely new to me.
I also said that I was not about to jump to conclusions about what I had found. To be fair, I would look for a logical explanation for the apparent mistake. The folks at the county courthouse gave some guidance on how to go about doing that. My first step, they said, was to talk with the township's assessor, John Botto.
I've done that, and I found that there is, in fact, a logical explanation for the assessment. Today I'm going to report what I learned about that, and I'm also going to relate -- for any readers who might be as much of a novice as I -- some of what I learned about the basic assessment and taxation process.
The Board Of Review
In a nutshell, the corporation that purchased the two lakefront parcels later found that they had been stuck with nearly worthless land. Apparently there is a lot of stamp sand there. Either the corporation's agent did not notice that fact before purchasing the land or did not realize (until it was too late) that the stamp sand made the property worthless.
To obtain relief from paying substantial taxes on worthless land, the corporation appealed to the township's Board of Review, which is its right under the law and is the proper channel for addressing such issues. The Board of Review looked into what had happened to the corporation and determined that the corporation's claims were correct.
Being completely ignorant about township government (and many other things too, as my dear wife can attest!), I peppered Mr. Botto with many questions about how all this works. With utmost patience, he explained as much as I could absorb.
[As an aside, let me emphasize how impressed I've been with all of the county and township government people I've talked with about this: everyone has been very friendly and helpful, even if they couldn't help but notice (to my shame) how uninformed I am as a citizen. If I make any mistakes in describing the process I'm just beginning to learn, you can be sure that they are due to my own errors in understanding what I've been told. I promise to correct any mistakes as soon as I learn about them, and I'm doing my best to be accurate.]
I understand that the Board of Review is appointed by the township board for a two-year term and meets with the public three times a year. Looking now at the Notice of Assessment for my family's parcel, I see that the previously mysterious notation about "BOR" informs knowledgeable citizens where and when we can next bring assessment matters before the Board of Review for resolution.
The mission of the Board of Review is to ensure that the assessments are fair to both the township and the taxpayer. If the taxpayer feels wronged by the Board of Review, he or she can appeal the decision to a higher authority -- all the way to the Michigan Supreme Court, if necessary.
At the local level, the Board of Review acts to make certain that the State Equalized Value of a parcel represents, to the best of their ability to determine it, exactly half of the fair market value of a property. So if a taxpayer believes that the recorded SEV for a particular property is actually more than one-half of its fair market value (resulting in an unfairly high tax) -- and the assessor disagrees -- the Board of Review resolves the disagreement.
Was the Ruling Correct?
Coming back to the larger of the properties in question, then, the members of the Board of Review put their professional judgment and personal integrity behind their determination that (because of the stamp sand) this particular 7.5 acre parcel, with 480 feet of lakefront and 500+ feet of frontage on M-26, would not fetch more than $200 on the open market. That being the case, the $2.29 per year in taxes paid by the corporation follows as a matter of simple calculation.
From a personal perspective, stamp sand does not bother me quite that much, and I find it hard to accept that particular ruling as correct. I can safely say that I'd write a check for many times the market value of $200 that was established for that parcel.
On the other hand, that ruling was made several years ago and has likely remained in force through sheer inertia. I don't know how things looked at the time the Board of Review originally made it, and I doubt that it's possible for me to find out at this late date. If the ruling was really so far off the mark, with the township, county, and state all being short-changed, it's hard to believe that no public official would step in to correct it. And with the records being public, it's even harder to believe that ordinary taxpayers would accept picking up the slack for the incorrect assessments of others.
Assessment Problems
On the broader question of whether our township has existing assessment problems, it seems to me that we do have some. Looking over the card containing the assessment information for my own parcel, I was surprised to see almost no information on it. When asked, Mr. Botto explained that much of that missing information was actually required for a proper appraisal, and should not be missing. However, it seems that my situation is more common than not.
Also, I noticed, grabbed, and read the 14-point review mentioned earlier in this discussion thread (I hope that was not a violation). It is a bit sobering. After I get my notes straight and mull this over a bit, I'll post more about what I learned.
Don't think for a minute, though, that I'm going to jump to the conclusion that our new board will not act to rectify the problems. In fact, I reviewed the minutes of recent board meetings and found that the board has explicitly committed to fixing them.
Wutzup and JRussell
Wutzup 4or 5 posts back YOU say the BJFD has 160,000 MUST YOU CONTINUE TO LIE? JRussell you did some work and say their is 20,000.
I am inclined to believe your numbers. This is another rumor,half truth and lie I keep telling people Wutzup is doing . WUTZUP YOU ARE A LIAR. I will continue to expose your lies. YOU SAID 160,000 NOT ME. Just more of your BS.
Since its inception in 2000 the Foundation has grossed $146,411 up to FY2003 (that is Fiscal Year 2003). Gross receipts in FY2004 were $42,247 Add together.....you get $188,658. Through these years, they consistently have around about $20,000 in the bank after all of their donations and expenses. These were my postings, based upon signed 990's (that's a tax return). They consistently gross about $40K per year. These are not "half truths" unless the returns are erroneously prepared, which I doubt.
I agree that the better equipment, the more training and supplies available to these folks, the better..for their sake and the community's. I think it is amazing that they've been able to raise this amount of money. I do not, however, agree that it should have been kept so secret and I still do not understand WHY. That IS a clear violation of IRS regulation as well as Nonprofit regulations. And, yes, with this amount of money involved I do believe The TLT Board should have control over/input into its direction.
The net assets at the end of FY2004, as stated by The Foundation, were $23,230. I can tell you how many chicken dinners they sold, too, if you need further verification of my numbers or you can go to guidestar and look