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Lynn Torkelson	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:30 AM To all posters: Michael Moore is working on a new documentary about life in the UP. In a nutshell, he'd like to interview on film all the people who post on these boards. It goes without saying that I will not reveal your names or email addresses without your permission. If anyone wants to appear on camera, let me know. Probably Mr. Moore will be interviewing lots of other people too, so I can't imagine that the odds of any particular interview making it into the film would be very high. Birch Bark
Been There	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:30 AM What's the real subject?
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:34 AM The War in Iraq finally appears to be tapering off: Only 39 Coalition Troops Killed in Iraq During March. The data show 39 U.S. and coalition troops were killed during the month, the lowest toll since February 2004 when 23 died -- the least deadly month since the conflict began. Of March's 39 dead, 35 were U.S. soldiers or Marines... Over two years after our attack on Iraq on false pretenses, the leadership failures that led to the attack have been documented by the president's own commission on intelligence: Doubts on Weapons Were Dismissed. As former secretary of state Colin L. Powell worked into the night in a New York hotel room, on the eve of his February 2003 presentation to the U.N. Security Council, CIA officers sent urgent e-mails and cables describing grave doubts about a key charge he was going to make. On the telephone that night, a senior intelligence officer warned then-CIA Director George J. Tenet that he lacked confidence in the principal source of the assertion that Saddam Hussein's scientists were developing deadly agents in mobile laboratories.   "Mr. Tenet replied with words to the effect of 'yeah, yeah' and that he was 'exhausted,' " according to testimony quoted yesterday in the report of President Bush's commission on the intelligence failures leading up to his decision to invade Iraq in March 2003. Tenet told the commission he did not recall that part of the conversation. He relayed no such concerns to Powell, who made the germ- warfare charge a centerpiece of his presentation the next day. That was one among many examples -- cited over 692 pages in the report -- of fruitless dissent on the accuracy of claims against Iraq. Up until the days before U.S. troops entered Iraqi territory that March, the intelligence community was inundated with evidence that undermined virtually all charges it had made against Iraq, the report said. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,287 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 701 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	The Failure of Leadership Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:46 AM The president's own intelligence commission, in the report it just released, documents the kafka-esque position of analysts in the CIA unable to get through to "leaders" who do not want to hear the truth. Here is what I had to say about this situation in a post to Cousin Jack on February 15, 2005:   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Lying You wrote: It is your continuing expression (and I assume, conviction) that Bush and Blair deliberately lied (rather than misinterpeted evidence, biased in part by post-911 uncertainty and paranoia) which lies at the heart of your rage, Been There. Actually I don't feel any "rage" at all, so perhaps some of my word choices have given the wrong impression. Sorry about that, but I have to work with the vocabulary I've got. Clearly whenever someone in the Bush administration said, in the runup to war, that he or she "knew for a fact" that Saddam possessed weapons of mass destruction--which happened many, many times (and I've posted a few of those quotes in these forums)--that person was lying. If you know something for a fact, it can't later turn out to be false. You've posted here that you, too, don't like that those over-the-top false statements were made. Perhaps that is why you speak specifically of Bush, rather than of his surrogates. Nevertheless, George W. Bush never came out and said, "Hey, wait a minute, that's a little too strong." And, in fact, he made misleading and false statements himself. I can only speculate whether Bush's own misstatements were the result of deliberate intention or mere incompetence, and I suspect both played a part. However, this I believe strongly: No president worth his salt would have sent our soldiers to war without knowing exactly upon what evidence that decision was based. What Does It Mean to Be a Leader? From my experience in leadership roles, I can say this with certainty: When there are several layers of managers "putting their stamp" on a report before you see it, any report you get will have been scrubbed clean of anything likely to provoke a probing question on your part. Most of the time it doesn't matter much, and you've got too much to do to fix everything anyway. But when the matter is of great importance, you simply don't accept a report at face value no matter who gives it to you. You probe until you know exactly what went into it and why. And I mean asking the most uncomfortable questions possible of every single person in the chain of command, if need be, down to the analyst who produced the information to begin with. You might still have a tough decision, but your decision will be an informed one. If you're in charge, no one can stop you from doing that, and every good leader in the world does exactly that in situations of great importance. Not doing so means that the "leader" is lazy, stupid, or both.   So when I read that George W. Bush was convinced by Tenet's saying "It's a slam dunk," or some such idiocy, I know just how lame an excuse that really is. The CIA analysts knew that the administration's statements were false, and nothing could have stopped George W. Bush from finding that out too, had he done his job. This, too, goes right back to responsibility. I don't see that George W. Bush takes responsibility for his own actions--he consistently points the finger at others for his own failures--and so I do not consider him to have the character of a worthy leader. He's typical, in my opinion, of the "me generation" philosophy embodied by his whole administration.   ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   Six weeks later, those words are still right on the mark. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 9:49 AM "My views are one that speaks to freedom." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004
moots	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 10:26 AM BB,   Can I be the first one interviewed?!!  Tell him to look me up at the Eudora Cafe - the spam sandwiches usually aren't very good, but the trash bin is always full.   moots
Bobcat	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:32 AM You pathetic sheep!  Michael Moore is coming to the UP because I asked him.  He is going to do an expose on how all you ignorant and compliant idiots let a nuclear power plant be built on Keweenaw Point.  Eveybody talks about it, but  no one has had the guts to come out publicly against it, least of all this conspicuously and unconscionably silent website!  Do you suppose the state bought that land just for 4-wheelers and kayackers to trash?!!   It's what I would expect of local rag, but the cowardice of Keweenaw Now is despicable!  You're all on the take, aren't you!!!  I hate all of you!!!  Et tu, Look2it?  How could you? Bobcat
Bear Hunter	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 11:54 AM u treehuggers are all alike.  go ahead and shiver in the dark once your oil runs out.  i think a nuke plant is a good idea, and there ain't nothing you can do to stop it anyway.  done deal.  think of all the jobs it'll make.  that land up there ain't used for nothing anyway - nothing but swamp and brush.  caught a couple of bobcat in my traps last winter.  nice pelts.   bearhunter
SMP	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:03 PM You people can't be serious!  A nuclear power plant in the Keweenaw?!!!  I heard talk about this when we were vacationing in Copper Harbor last summer, but I put it down to idle rumors.  I saw nothing in the local papers and I've never seen it mentioned on Keweenaw Now.  Tell me this is a bad April Fool's joke.  It reminds me too much about what happened down here in Kentucky.  In the late 70's they constructed a nuclear plant on the Ohio River near Maysville.  Even though the plant was being built right under their noses, there wasn't a word about it in the local papers or on television.  The silence was eerie as it was incredible.   Promise me that you'll never let it happen in the beautiful Keweenaw!   SMP
Lynn Torkelson	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 1:32 PM It does my heart good to see so many of you get into the spirit of the day!   Birch Bark
Bear Hunter	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 2:28 PM hey hillbilly, u stay outa r  business -  we need real jobs up here, not waiting on tables and selling trinkets to tourists.  u outatowners think you own the place, but u dont.
SMP	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 3:17 PM Mr.Bear Hunter,   Your ursine charm is only excelled by your porcine wit.  It is reassuring to know that the Keweenaw still produces such robust specimens.  A rugged land like yours produces both smoothly polished gemstones and roughsawn lumber with the bark still on.   I did however take the trouble to make a couple of phone calls to reassure myself that the there is no substance to this madness, and that Keweenaw Point will remain pristine, at least for the the near future.   I look forward to seeing your beautiful land and lake again soon.   SMP
Bear Hunter	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 4:16 PM hillbilly u are a big man online just like all cybergeeks  - better stay down there and hide behind your computer - your penclneck might get eaten by some big bad bear up here
Cousin Jack	The Failure of Leadership Posted: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:25 PM Well, I see my early a.m. April Fools post may have set off some randomly mutating concatenations. If my deliberate effort to annoy BT (who enjoys it now and then, doesn't he) helped in any way to catalyze today's folly, then my karma has crested.   BTW, I do agree somewhat with this statement yours, BT:   The president's own intelligence commission, in the report it just released, documents the kafka-esque position of analysts in the CIA unable to get through to "leaders" who do not want to hear the truth.   Some of Dick Cheney's categorical statements on WMD prior to the invasion really perturbed me as I've noted last year. Maureen Dowd singled out Cheney with tarter sentiments than mine in her Thursday NY Times column and she's thoroughly researched "Bush World" over the years so she probably understands more about how their minds work than any of us here hinterlanders. Someone in the know should be taking them to task for the way they spun that awful intelligence even though I've long argued for removing that horrific regime. Way to go, Mo!   Oh oh, gotta go, the other phone's ringing and my caller ID says it's Michael Moore.   CJ
look2it	Unusual Opportunity Posted: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:52 AM ROFL! When the snow melts, folks up here really kick loose! Happy April all! G'night.
Been There	The Failure of Leadership Posted: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:04 PM Cousin Jack, Based on the intensity with which he approached his preparation for his presentation to the U.N., I think Colin Powell might well have gotten to the bottom of the intelligence situation if George Tenent had been Powell's subordinate. It's horrifying to realize that President Bush approached the whole matter of going to war more casually than did Colin Powell going to the U.N. Though I disagree with you about the correctness of the way Saddam Hussein was removed from power, I share the belief that the world needs an effective, legal means for removing such tyrants. Unfortunately the false "weapons of mass destruction" claims cost our nation, and the world, an excellent opportunity to discuss that issue. Been There
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:08 PM Bear Hunter, The nuclear power plant issue you raised in your clever April Fools series has a serious point. Sooner or later cheap gasoline and oil will run out (gas is not exactly cheap at my local station right now) and there exists today no practical alternative source to nuclear power for the amounts of energy we consume. None of us wants a power plant at Keweenaw Point, but the coming years will see, of necessity, the building of many nuclear power plants, including some on the shores of Lake Superior. I think it's vital for us to start thinking about that now, before some government agencies and the corporations they're teamed with do that thinking for us. In particular, those of us who live in the UP need to identify more than the fragile areas that should be completely out of bounds for nuclear power plants. We need to think also about where such plants could reasonably be located, and plan accordingly. Aside from safety issues, which eventually will pale in comparsion to our voracious appetite for power, the problem with nuclear power is, as you know, its lethal waste products. That's why it was particularly disconcerting to read this article about the Yucca Mountain project today: E-Mails Reveal Fraud in Nuclear Site Study. The author of another message noted in January 2000 that he could not document the way certain work was done. "I can start making something up, but then the (deleted) projects will need to go on hold," he wrote. In an e-mail message in March 2000, a government worker wrote that he did not know when software he had used had been installed. "So I've made up the dates and names," he wrote. "If they need more proof I will be happy to make up more stuff, as long as its not a video recording of the software being installed." The people of Nevada don't want nuclear waste any more than we want a nuclear power plan at Keweenaw Point. Probably these new revelations will cast a new monkey wrench into the Yucca Mountain project. However, wishful thinking won't solve the looming energy problems. We need to get a handle on these things now, in preparation for the pressures we will soon face. What do you think? Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Saturday, April 02, 2005 12:12 PM "By the way, we rank 10th amongst the industrialized world in broadband technology and its availability. That's not good enough for America. Tenth is 10 spots too low as far as I'm concerned." —George W. Bush, Minneapolis, Minn., April 26, 2004
Cousin Jack	The Failure of Leadership Posted: Saturday, April 02, 2005 11:50 PM Been There writes: Based on the intensity with which he approached his preparation for his presentation to the U.N., I think Colin Powell might well have gotten to the bottom of the intelligence situation if George Tenent had been Powell's subordinate. Perhaps. But here's what he told Stern Magazine last week according to an Associated Press report at this ABC News International website: Powell, who retired as secretary of state in January, also said he still is angry about his Feb. 5, 2003, speech to the U.N. Security Council in which he said Iraq had weapons of mass destruction that violated U.N. sanctions. No such weapons were found, but Powell told Stern he had no reason to doubt intelligence from the CIA and other agencies suggesting Saddam had them. Powell said he spent four days and three nights at the CIA before making the presentation, Stern reported. "Some of this information was wrong. I didn't know that at the time," Powell was quoted as saying. "I have to live with that." But he defended the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 that toppled Saddam and paved the way for elections in Iraq despite the continuing anti-U.S. insurgency. "Yes, the insurgency is much bigger than we assumed. But I'm happy that Saddam is in jail. And I'm darn glad that we will never again have to talk about weapons of mass destruction in connection with Iraq," Powell said.  Now, since the former Secreteary of State has now departed BushWorld, if only he would become more candid about exactly how fellow administration spin-meisters like Cheney and Rumsfeld went about weaving this intelligence web over his eyes and the mass media's as I happen to think there might be lots of  folks (especially those military families bereaving the current 1500 casualties) who would appreciate an honest insider's description of that beguilement process by someone they trust while such hands are still wielding the bureaucratic machinery of American power so we can all decide as a people whether or not they really should still be employed there to wield more.   I say this tonight in full sympathy with Colin Powell's dilemma as evidenced by what I posted here (in a reply to BT) last October 23: My real complaint about some of the pre-war media buildup is over unqualified pronouncements such as this one:   “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction,” Vice President Dick Cheney said in a speech Aug. 26, 2002. “There is no doubt he is amassing them to use against our friends, against our allies and against us.”   That kind of absolute certitude is an irresponsible and propagandistic abuse of political power and I have to believe that it now sits quite bitterly in the minds of those congressional members who may have been partly swayed by such comments in their decision to OK the use of force against Iraq.   In the end, I agree with you that the Bush administration cherry picked intelligence which favored their predisposition for taking out the Saddam Hussein regime. Not just concerning WMD, where one could reasonably argue they decided to err on the side of caution, but mostly concerning the possibility of a post-invasion insurgency. They chose to believe the rosy scenario forecasts over those predicting a much messier outcome. This was a clear failure of judgement on their part. But after 12 years of U.N. violations, the constant firing upon our planes in the no-fly zone and the ongoing interference with U.N. inspection teams, whether the decision to go to war when we did was properly one of “last resort” seems highly subjective to me and will undoubtedly be argued about by military historians in the years to come. In any case, I think that removing the Saddam Hussein regime is ultimately a good thing and I believe the Persian Gulf and the world will be much better off in the long run because of it.   CJ
look2it	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 12:52 AM BT, that might have been the funniest quote yet. And April Fool was yesterday. Go figure. G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:44 AM Still no government in Iraq, and still no end to the violence: At Least 20 U.S. Troops Wounded in Attack on Iraqi Prison; U.S. Marine Killed. Using suicide car bombs and an array of weapons, scores of insurgents made the biggest assault yet on the American-controlled Abu Ghraib prison on Saturday evening, American military officials said. At least 20 American soldiers and marines were wounded.    Forty to 60 insurgents attacked the prison from opposite directions, but were repelled by the Americans in a pitched battle that lasted for 30 to 40 minutes, the officials said. They added that they knew of only one insurgent who had been killed, but said it was almost certain the guerrillas suffered additional casualties. The assault appeared to be an attempt to break prisoners out of a part of the center that is controlled by Iraqi security forces, said Lt. Col. Guy Rudisill, a spokesman for the American detainee system in Iraq. ... Also on Saturday, the American military said a marine was killed the previous day by small-arms fire in Ramadi. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,289 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 703 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	The Changing of the Guard Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:48 AM A long reign ended yesterday: Pope Succumbs to Illness Suffered at Length and in Public. After a doctor certifies his death, tradition calls for the Vatican camerlengo, Cardinal Eduardo Martinez Somalo, who will run the Vatican until a new pope is chosen, to call out his baptismal name three times. He then strikes the pope's forehead with a silver hammer to ensure he is dead. The hammer is then used to destroy the papal ring, the symbol of his authority. What an interesting tradition! Before the end of April, we'll know who the new pope will be.   Been There
Been There	The Failure of Leadership Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:49 AM Cousin Jack, If George Tenet had been Colin Powell's subordinate, Mr. Powell would have had weeks and months to get to the truth about the intelligence on Iraq. Even during the short period before his presentation to the U.N., Mr. Powell identified several shortcomings in the information he was presented. With enough time and authority, I believe chances are excellent that he'd have found the truth, as would any worthy leader. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 10:51 AM "I was a prisoner too, but for bad reasons." —George W. Bush, Monterrey, Mexico, Jan. 13, 2004 Note: President Bush said this to Argentine President Nestor Kirchner, after Kirchner told Bush that all but one of the Argentines accompanying him to the meeting in Mexico had been imprisoned during the former Argentine military dictatorship.
Cousin Jack	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 2:33 PM Been There writes: The people of Nevada don't want nuclear waste any more than we want a nuclear power plan at Keweenaw Point. Probably these new revelations will cast a new monkey wrench into the Yucca Mountain project.  George Will had a good 2 part column on Yucca Mountain a week or so ago. From Part I: Nevada asks: Can the safekeeping of the waste be absolute, forever? The answer, of course, is no -- nothing is that certain. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission will decide whether the repository can begin receiving waste after evaluating scientific studies conducted in the bowels of this mountain. Two federal agencies are investigating accusations that some federal scientists falsified data to make the mountain seem safe.   The crucial questions are how water permeates this mountain, and how heat from the waste might affect the mountain's hydrology. The federal government's case for this mountain's suitability is: The volcanic and seismic risks are factored into designs. Average annual precipitation is very low, 7.5 inches, 95 percent of which runs off the mountain or into vegetation root systems. Even assuming that coming millennia will be slightly cooler, hence wetter -- the evidence of fossilized pack rats' nests at least 35,000 years old -- hydrological and chemical conditions in the mountain would cause corrosion of just 0.03 inches in 10,000 years, such is the metallurgical sophistication of the proposed waste containers. The Bush adminstration argues (from Part II): Because of the aridity of this eastern end of the Death Valley hydrologic basin and because of what scientists have learned about the mountain's reaction to the sort of heat that will be generated by the slowly decaying waste and because metallurgical advances will make waste containers extraordinarily durable, no significant corrosion can threaten the structural integrity of containers that will hold the waste for at least 10,000 years -- and probably 80,000.   Not so, says Steve Frishman, a geologist employed by Nevada. He insists that enough water will reach the metal containers to cause, within just 200 years, seepage of radioactive waste that will threaten the groundwater and irrigation systems.   Will's closing case for OKing Yucca: Las Vegas is farther from this mountain than 161 million Americans are from 125 nuclear waste storage facilities in 39 states. These sites are much less secure than Yucca Mountain would be, with the material 1,000 feet below ground and the mountain located next to the Nuclear Emergency Support Team at Nellis.   Nevada has two tactics. It is insisting on a degree of certainty -- absolute certainty, over 100 millennia -- that is unreasonable, even considering the stakes. And it is making testable assertions about geological and metallurgical matters about which scientists are reaching conclusions that are beyond reasonable doubts. Three truths: America must store nuclear waste more safely, can never prove perfect safety forever and hence cannot store waste anywhere it will be welcomed. An axiom: Put all your eggs in one basket and watch that basket.   CJ
Cousin Jack	The New World is Flat Posted: Sunday, April 03, 2005 5:24 PM Hmm, perhaps our prior chuckling at the expense of the Flat Earth Society was a bit premature. The New World is Flat: Wherever you look today -- whether it is the world of journalism, with bloggers bringing down Dan Rather; the world of software, with the Linux code writers working in online forums for free to challenge Microsoft; or the world of business, where Indian and Chinese innovators are competing against and working with some of the most advanced Western multinationals -- hierarchies are being flattened and value is being created less and less within vertical silos and more and more through horizontal collaboration within companies, between companies and among individuals. Which may be why the Iraqi National Assembly has finally gotten its rear in gear and elected a Speaker: In last-minute dealmaking on Saturday and this morning, the leaders of the top political parties settled on naming as speaker Hajim al-Hassani, a prominent Sunni Arab and the minister of industry under the interim government. Hussain al-Shahrastani, a nuclear physicist and leading Shiite Arab, and Arif Taifour, a Kurd, were selected to be the two deputies.   After the votes were counted today, Mr. Hassani took a seat at 12:20 p.m. at a table at the head of the assembly. He was flanked by his two deputies. He then urged the assembly members to move past ethnic and sectarian differences to work for the greater good of Iraq. "The Iraqi people have placed their trust in you to rebuild the destroyed country, and to eliminate all administrative and financial corruption in state establishments," said Mr. Hassani, 50, who earned a Ph.D. at the University of Connecticut's Department of Agricultural and Resource Economics and lived for 12 years in Los Angeles. "You should be part of the suffering of your people." Outside the assembly room, Mr. Hassani told reporters: "I am an Iraqi before I am a Sunni." All of which sounds like good news to me.   Cheers, CJ
Bear Hunter	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 8:42 AM gotta do what you gotta do -somthing  treehuggers dont like to hear
moots	Mark 1: 9-13 (NIV) Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:16 AM The Baptism and Temptation of Jesus     9At that time Jesus came from Nazareth in Galilee and was baptized by John in the Jordan. 10As Jesus was coming up out of the water, he saw heaven being torn open and the Spirit descending on him like a dove. 11And a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love; with you I am well pleased.”    12At once the Spirit sent him out into the desert, 13and he was in the desert forty days, being tempted by Satan. He was with the wild animals, and angels attended him.
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 9:47 AM BT, CJ, BH   Michelle must love to see a discussion about nuclear power plants on Lake Superior, just as much as I'd love to see one built on our favorite campsite - which actually might be a real good place to build one.  But as Aldo Leopold said, "man brings all things to the test of himself," which is typically expressed in the words NOT IN MY BACKYARD!   I suspect that the obstacles are not so much the technical challenges as a far more elusive quality - the issue of trust.  Without trust all the scientific data in the world is meaningless, because it can always be seen as an effort to pull the wool over the eyes.   I suspect more nuclear plants are invevitable, given our energy demands which have become structural to our way of life, economy, etc.  The Copper Country itself depends on Detroit hiring Tech's engineers and sending tourists back our way with their snowmobiles, motor homes and fat wallets to spend the surplus of their wage slavery.  Detroit seems to be on the wane these days however and the goose that laid the golden eggs is feeling the effects of high pump prices.  The SUV, upon which Detroit has hung its fortunes, may become a dinosaur.   I really don't know how this is going to play out, because of the trust factor.  I suppose we could build more coal burning power plants, but the environmental issues involved there are formidable as well.  One thing is certain, clean burning hydrogen engines require a lot of electrical power to produce all the hydrogen, they merely transfer the source of pollution to powerplants.   One of the inherent problems in a democracy is the dilution of responsibilty and the tendency of a large number of people to opt out of advocating anything, preferring to be against something, because "they are being lied to".  It seems to be the common resort of folks who may consider themselves powerless, unimportant or simply unable or unwilling to wrestle with conflicting arguments.   Instead the responsibility is transferred to the vague other  - "They ought to do something, they're lying to us,  what are they going to do..."   Nuclear power is another form of combustion - fire if you will.  It would be nice to think we can harness it safely, but history teaches otherwise.  It would be nice to think we could reach some kind of national consenses on energy policy and pursue it with a shared sense of responsibility, but I am not sanguine.   If recent history is any guide, I suspect it will be the side with the best ad agencies and the best lawyers that wins.  But you are right on one thing BT it is something we should seriously consider before we are left "shivering in the dark"  (you've got promise BH, keep at it).  I really wonder about this....how will it play out?   moots
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:26 AM Cousin Jack, Thanks for the links to George Will's columns on Yucca Mountain, which I had missed. Our country certainly needs that facility, and there is no perfect solution. What's more, we can't afford to wait; the present situation is unacceptable. Switching gears a bit, I must say I was also pleased to see yesterday that the Iraqis have finally selected a Sunni as speaker. Been There
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:27 AM Moots, I think that our country's "burn-up-the-oil-as-fast-as-possible" energy policy is a disgrace, but it's also a reality. Not too far down the road, in my opinion, we will have no choice but to cope with a major expansion of nuclear power production. We won't be able to avoid all of the unpleasant consequences, but we can, through foresight and planning, mitigate them. Been There
Been There	The Changing of the Guard Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:30 AM On the death of Pope John Paul II, it is appropriate to recall steps he took to rectify past errors: Galileo was right. He conceded - 350 years after the fact - that the church had been wrong to persecute Galileo for saying the earth circles the sun, not the other way around. Seeking to rectify an infamous case of dogma over reason, the pope in 1992 said the astronomer-physicist should not have been forced in 1633, under threat of death, to recant his discoveries. The death threats Darwin received were unofficial, not from the church, but Pope John Paul II discussed evolution also: Darwin was right. In 1996, the pope also acknowledged that the human body might not have been the immediate creation of God, but was the product of evolution, which he called "more than just a hypothesis." The church had never condemned Darwin, but had warned that his ideas played into the hands of materialists and atheists. The correctness of ideas is independent of "the hands they play into" and it was wise for the pope to acknowledge that. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 11:31 AM "And so, in my State of the — my State of the Union — or state — my speech to the nation, whatever you want to call it, speech to the nation — I asked Americans to give 4,000 years — 4,000 hours over the next — the rest of your life — of service to America. That's what I asked — 4,000 hours." —George W. Bush, Bridgeport, Conn., April 9, 2002
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 04, 2005 12:24 PM BT wrote, I think that our country's "burn-up-the-oil-as-fast-as-possible" energy policy is a disgrace, but it's also a reality. Not too far down the road, in my opinion, we will have no choice but to cope with a major expansion of nuclear power production. We won't be able to avoid all of the unpleasant consequences, but we can, through foresight and planning, mitigate them. I suspect you're right, but I would like to play devil's advocate and pick your brain on this.  Considering all the coal we have, why not simply build more conventional power plants equipped with state of the art scrubbers?  Why do you think nuclear power is necessary?   moots
look2it	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:54 AM Talking to a local gas dealer, he said they don't make much on a gallon no matter what gas sells for, but he said the oil companies are making out like bandits these days. Wouldn't surprise me. Isn't the Bush family into oil? G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:39 AM The Iraqis now say tomorrow is the day we'll learn the identities of their new leaders: a president, two vice-presidents, and a prime minister. Today we learn the details of more deaths in the war: U.S., Iraqi Troops Battle Dozens of Insurgents; 3 U.S. Soldiers Killed. U.S. and Iraqi forces battled dozens of insurgents in a remote area east of Baghdad and three soldiers, two American and one Iraqi, were killed in the fighting, the U.S. military said on Tuesday. ... In other violence on Tuesday a U.S. soldier was killed and four wounded by a roadside bomb in Baghdad, taking the American military and Pentagon death toll in Iraq to at least 1,539 since the start of the war in March 2003. Roadside bombs also killed four civilians in Salman Pak and two policemen in the southern city of Basra, police said. A car bomb in southwestern Baghdad killed one Iraqi civilian and wounded two. In Hilla, south of Baghdad, a local government official was assassinated on his way to work, police said. The commander of a special armored unit of the Iraqi army, Brigadier General Jalal Mohammed Saleh, was kidnapped in Baghdad late on Monday, police said. Insurgents have kidnapped several leading Iraqi officials and military officers, and often kill them and post footage of their deaths on the Internet. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,291 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 705 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:40 AM Moots, I think more coal-powered generators will be built in the future, especially near the locations where coal can be extracted with the least consumption of energy. As you know, though, coal mining also engenders a lot of opposition from those displaced from the land that coal mining wrecks. Other types of non-nuclear power plants, too, will be built. It comes down to how much additional energy you get in return for the energy consumed creating it. I just don't see that we are going to fill our nation's appetite for energy without also building a lot of nuclear power plants, as the cost of oil gets higher and higher. We've put too much strain on our power grid already on occasion, and will eventually have to find replacements for the energy produced by huge numbers of gasoline engines in addition to the normal increases in our use of electricity. We'll need much more generation capacity and a much greater capacity for delivering that power as well. Look2It, Oil companies have indeed been reporting high profits. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 11:42 AM "The legislature's job is to write law. It's the executive branch's job to interpret law." —George W. Bush, Austin, Texas, Nov. 22, 2000
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 12:37 PM BT,   I'd like to explore this a little further if you don't mind, partly because I'm afraid it is in the cards and partly because it almost seems unthinkable to me at this time.  You said None of us wants a power plant at Keweenaw Point, but the coming years will see, of necessity, the building of many nuclear power plants, including some on the shores of Lake Superior. I think it's vital for us to start thinking about that now, before some government agencies and the corporations they're teamed with do that thinking for us. Let's take a hypothetical case that it was determined that a nuclear plant could be built at White Pine, which I believe already has a  power plant and offers underground storage of nuclear waste.  It's relatively isolated, economically depressed, has lots of cold water and is somewhat upwind of us.   Do you think it conceivable that the local population - say within 100 mile radius would approve the construction of such?  Under what circumstances?   moots
Larch	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 05, 2005 9:36 PM Moots and Been There,   I think it is totally irresponsible of you to suggest that building a nuclear power plant anywhere within the Lake Superior watershed is inevitable.  This must not be allowed to happen.  Lake Superior requires 150 years or so to completely flush itself out; any radiation leak would contaminate the lake for generations. Isn't what the mining industry has done to the lake bad enough?!   I am not suggesting that you mean harm, but academic musings can be the first step on a downward spiral.  What "seems unthinkable" as you say, Moots, has a way of becoming plausible, then reasonable, then inevitable, and we finally embrace that from which we first recoiled.   Surely there must be other subjects that you can argue about rather than something that could destroy our way of life entirely.   Larch
look2it	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 12:03 AM Larch, I agree with you, that's nuts. I'd rather eat dirt. G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:48 AM There was good news and bad news from Iraq today: Breaking Deadlock, Iraqis Pick President and 2 Other Officials; 4 U.S. Soldiers killed. As Saddam Hussein watched from a television in his cell, Iraq's national assembly today appointed one of his most tenacious opponents to the office of president, taking a significant step in forming a new government and breaking a political deadlock nearly 10 weeks after general elections. The assembly voted in Jalal Talabani, a Kurdish leader, as president; Adel Abdul Mahdi, a prominent Shiite Arab politician, as vice president, and Sheik Ghazi al-Yawar, the Sunni Arab president of the interim government, as the other vice president. The next step is the naming of a Shiite Prime Minister, who will wield the most power. The bad news: As the political stalemate appeared to be coming to an end, American and Iraqi officials on Tuesday reported a wave of violence that resulted in the deaths of three American soldiers and a marine and at least one Iraqi Army officer. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,292 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 706 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:52 AM Larch and co.   You're probably right.  Maybe I should stick to making maple syrup.  10 pints so far, sell's for 7.00 a pint in the grocery store, so I guess I'm ahead of the game.   moots
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:54 AM Larch and Look2It, I don't see that recognizing a problem in order to deal with it in the safest, most effective way possible is at all irresponsible. The real list of irresponsible behaviors includes: Our gas-guzzling energy policy. Ignoring the unpleasant consequences of that policy. The mere fact that our "me generation" government of the past 20 years reflexively evades responsibility for the consequences of its actions does not make that approach a responsible one. You can be sure that I don't like the idea of nuclear plants on the shores of Lake Superior any more than you do. But I don't believe that putting our heads in the stamp sands will protect us one bit once the energy crunch starts to hit. Been There
moots	Mark 1:14-20 Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 10:54 AM The Calling of the First Disciples     14After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God. 15“The time has come,” he said. “The kingdom of God is near. Repent and believe the good news!”    16As Jesus walked beside the Sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and his brother Andrew casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 17“Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will make you fishers of men.” 18At once they left their nets and followed him.    19When he had gone a little farther, he saw James son of Zebedee and his brother John in a boat, preparing their nets. 20Without delay he called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired men and followed him.
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:02 AM Moots, As you indicate, nuclear plants will be built where there is abundant cold water and low population densities. We have the advantage of being away from large urban areas where more power is needed, but that won't protect us forever. You asked: Do you think it conceivable that the local population - say within 100 mile radius would approve the construction of such?  Under what circumstances? Of course it's conceivable, and I'm not sure that the decision would be influenced by folks living 100 miles from White Pine. Let's just conceive of the following conditions, to be put to the vote of folks within a reasonable radius of White Pine, say twenty miles: All nuclear waste will be shipped out for storage at Yucca Mountain. High-paying jobs will be available to people living in the area. Local citizens will be members of the plant safety oversight board. The power company will buy the property of anyone who wants to leave for double its market value. Any renter who leaves for good will get a flat payment of $10,000. I suspect that such a proposal would pass, don't you? Perhaps folks living outside the the 20-mile radius would be mollified by getting some free hockey tickets each year to a new semi-pro team--the Meltdowns--that the company would agree to subsidize. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 11:05 AM "Those of us who spent time in the agricultural sector and in the heartland, we understand how unfair the death penalty is." —George W. Bush, Omaha, Neb., Feb. 28, 2001
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 1:54 PM BT,   How much of an obstacle is distance?  Seems to me that high voltage lines run from a lot of rather remote hydroelectric dams.  Is the power loss through transmission enough to make a Lake Superior site unfeasible?  The Twin Cities, Milwaukee and Chicago aren't that distant.   Now argue the flip side of your proposal.  Why wouldn't it pass?   moots
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 2:30 PM Moots,   You asked: How much of an obstacle is distance? Not much. Why wouldn't it pass? You tell me. I don't see any reason it wouldn't. I seems to me that proposal, or something like it anyway, would pass by a good margin.   Been There
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 3:21 PM BT,   Your proposal would likely pass a local referendum, but I suspect there would a great deal of resistance from the environmental community that would dwarf that effort against solution mining at the mine some years back.  Still, given a sufficiently deep energy crisis, most Americans tend to vote their pocketbooks ahead of environmental concerns, which could lead to further radicalization of the environmental movement.  Nuclear power has been demonized of late, perhaps rightly so, and it is difficult to even talk about it in many circles.   It is an area where trust must play a huge part, and that seems to be in short supply.   moots
Maggot	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 4:24 PM yo mutzi &bin dar waddaya upto witsis goodcopbadcop nuk biz? ya gotta landscam going trying to sell lots in whitepine ?notza first in da  Upee nossir not by a long shot! aint gonna work neither. what reel-less- taker yo working for?  magnus here can smella deadrat- aintirit luktuit? watsis country really needsis a 50 cent packacigarets
nm420	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 4:30 PM In order to have trust, there must be honesty displayed to earn it, which also seems to be in short supply. Only a handful of nuclear power plant disasters are known to the population at large, despite a good number of accidents with this type of power around the globe. It's not as if such stories aren't sensational enough for the evening news. Indeed, lies are told to the public about some of these accidents, so that the people might not panic. Well, panic in the face of a clear and present danger is a rather normal and healthy reaction, though I suppose disillusionment isn't so abnormal either. Regardless, we seem to have dug ourselves so deep into an energy pit that, when oil does become a scarce commodity, no amount of nuclear power plants or whatever other miracle cure might pop up will save us from some quite traumatic changes in our standards of living.
look2it	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 12:32 AM nm420, you are totally right about the trust thing. Too many people will say anything to make a buck or snag a vote. G'night.
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:05 AM Durn it, Maggot, you saw right thru us.  I told BT not to start talking about the home buyouts right off, but ever since his oil stocks went thru the roof he's been shooting the long three.   nm420, I think you put your finger on something here Only a handful of nuclear power plant disasters are known to the population at large, despite a good number of accidents with this type of power around the globe. Do you know this to be true?  It well may be, but after Chernobyl and 3 Mile Island one could say just about anything about nuke plants and most people would believe it, much in the same way you could say almost anything about Bush and BT would suspect it is true  (just kidding BT, I know you're fair and unbiased).  The more serious question is, if more nuclear power plants must be built in the future, as BT believes, how can we deal with the trust issue?  It is easy to opt out and say "those bastards are lying to us", but that doesn't get us very far.  We are somewhat like the Israelis and the Palestinians on this and both sides have tended to demonize each other  - at some point you have to begin to build trust.   I am far more hopeful in the possibilities of technology than our ability to get together.  I am not an engineer, but I suspect that fuel cells will power most cars at some point in the future - but that will require a vast increase in electric power generation in order to recharge those suckers.  Coal and oil power plants rely on the same depleting fossil fuel base and put all that carbon into the atmosphere, but nuclear power - if it can be safely generated - is virtually unlimited.  I don't think that the traumatic changes in lifestyle will come as a result of diminishing oil reserves, but they certainly will come if we cannot agree on an energy policy and fall into a civil conflict attended by ecoterrorism and vigilante reprisals.   Louis Lamour, the writer of pulp westerns, made an important point - mankind's enemies lurk behind a very thin wall - cold, hunger, disease and lawlessness.  Civil wars are hell on earth and they often arrive very unexpectedly.   moots
nm420	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 9:32 AM I know very little to be true, yet I take many "facts" on good faith, as does most everyone. A heavily researched book I am reading, "Voltaire's Bastards," has mentioned several accidents that get suppressed from the mainstream press, despite the gravity of the situations. While failing to mention that radioactive waste is contaminating the surrounding areas is not an outright lie, it's certainly dishonest and I would consider it wrong. As for being hopeful about the cures brought on by technology, I would place no more faith in technology than I do in the hands controlling it. Regardless, short of our society reverting back to a pre-industrial state, it is clear that some major changes must happen soon in our energy policy. A heavier reliance on nuclear power is certainly one option, though I will remind you that even uranium is not so abundant as to be anything more than a temporary crutch.
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:13 AM nm420,  good point     I remind you that even uranium is not so abundant as to be anything more than a temporary crutch   I wonder what our "proven reserves" are?  I would imagine that the supply would go up somewhat with demand though, as more exploration becomes profitable.  Interesting point.   As for being hopeful about the cures brought on by technology, I would place no more faith in technology than I do in the hands controlling it.   In many ways techology is very democratic - anyone who can develop it can use it - and is somewhat beyond control.  On the other hand, we need to get beyond the us/them mindset.  Getting to "we" is I think, the greater challenge.   moots
3dollarbill	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 10:39 AM you can tell when the republicans are lying cause their lips move.
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:15 AM 3d,   that don't always work, sometimes they use hand signals.  keep yore hand on yore wallet so them big boys don't get yore milk money.   moots
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:38 AM Iraq finally has its new government: Iraqi Interim President, Council Sworn In. Iraq's presidential council was sworn in Thursday and named Shiite Arab Ibrahim al-Jaafari to the country's most powerful position -- interim prime minister -- giving Iraq its first freely elected government in 50 years, and its third set of interim leaders since the U.S.-led invasion. Al-Jaafari has two weeks to name his Cabinet, allowing the new government to begin work on its primary task: drafting a permanent constitution. If approved, the constitution will pave the way for elections for a permanent government in December.   Shiites, who comprise some 60 percent of Iraq's 26 million population, have a majority of seats in the National Assembly, while Kurds have the second-largest bloc. Sunni Arabs have disproportionately few seats, largely because many boycotted the Jan. 30 elections or stayed home for fear of attacks at the polls. Kurds make up about 20 percent of the population, while Sunnis make up 15 percent to 20 percent of the population. Al-Jaafari spent more than two decades in exile, mostly in Britain and Iran, helping to lead anti-Saddam opposition forces in the Islamic Dawa Party, Iraq's first Shiite Islamic political party. He also has close ties to Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, Iraq's most influential Shiite cleric. Al-Jaafari's wife is a distant relative of al-Sistani's. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,293 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 707 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:46 AM Nm420 wrote: Only a handful of nuclear power plant disasters are known to the population at large, despite a good number of accidents with this type of power around the globe. Yes, many dangerous events have occurred in nuclear power plants that have not made the media splash of either Chernobyl or 3-Mile Island. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) sees part of its mission as maintaining public confidence in nuclear power plants, whether the confidence is warranted or not. A typical example is the incident the Brown's Ferry plant in Alabama: The Fire at the Brown's Ferry Nuclear Power Station. How a Candle Caused a Nuclear Emergency At noon on March 22, 1975, both Units 1 and 2 at the Brown's Ferry plant in Alabama were operating at full power, delivering 2200 megawatts of electricity to the Tennessee Valley Authority. Just below the plant's control room, two electricians were trying to seal air leaks in the cable spreading room, where the electrical cables that control the two reactors are separated and routed through different tunnels to the reactor buildings. They were using strips of spongy foam rubber to seal the leaks. They were also using candles to determine whether or not the leaks had been successfully plugged -- by observing how the flame was affected by escaping air. The electrical engineer put the candle too close to the foam rubber, and it burst into flame. The resulting fire, which disabled a large number of engineered safety systems at the plant, including the entire emergency core cooling system (ECCS) on Unit 1, and almost resulted in a boiloff/meltdown accident, demonstrates the vulnerability of nuclear plants to "single failure" events and human fallibility. A few years after that fire, I had business dealings with the management of the Brown's Ferry plant, which TVA was still trying to get back into service. I quickly saw that the plant management was still shockingly incompetent and, I concluded, just not up to the task of running the reactors safely. In fact, when no NRC inspectors were present, they talked openly about ways to conceal safety problems in order to gain approval to restart the reactors. Moots wrote: Still, given a sufficiently deep energy crisis, most Americans tend to vote their pocketbooks ahead of environmental concerns, which could lead to further radicalization of the environmental movement.  Nuclear power has been demonized of late, perhaps rightly so, and it is difficult to even talk about it in many circles. I see the presence of a strong and determined group opposed to nuclear power as a needed (and positive) counterweight to the corporate/governmental coalition dedicated to concealing and minimizing serious problems. Such groups are needed to create a political climate in which the problems they publicize will be addressed. People from those groups should be the very citizens to sit on local safety boards when the building of nuclear plants resumes (as I think must eventually happen). Nm420 wrote: Regardless, we seem to have dug ourselves so deep into an energy pit that, when oil does become a scarce commodity, no amount of nuclear power plants or whatever other miracle cure might pop up will save us from some quite traumatic changes in our standards of living. I agree. We might experience the beginning of the emerging energy crisis, but our children and grandchildren will bear the full brunt of it. This situation is part and parcel of the importance the "me generation" puts on its own comfort and desires over the needs of others, and particularly over the needs of future generations.   What are we doing? Our society considers the convenient ability to waste of huge amounts of oil now to be much more important than the problems such irresponsible behavior will cause our children and grandchildren. Our society considers the convenient ability to discharge huge amounts of greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere now to be much more important than the problems such irresponsible behavior will cause our children and grandchildren. Our society considers the convenient ability to amass huge federal debts now to be much more important than the problems such irresponsible behavior will cause our children and grandchildren. For the "me generation" philosophers no other generation holds any interest. And now those living the "me generation" philosophy are fully entrenched in our government and in our corporations. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 11:52 AM "A free Iraq is essential to our respective securities." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., June 1, 2004
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:18 PM BT,   I am part of that "me generation" as so, I suspect, are you.  It is fully entrenched everywhere in America, not just in our government and corporations.  Do you live by the same standards you judge others?  I really cannot say that I do.   moots
Maggot	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Thursday, April 07, 2005 3:40 PM lotsa words but whaddayou flossofers no shitfrum shinola.  nuff  hotair here t liteup chicago watsis country needis taxfee smokes. magnus
look2it	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 12:39 AM Maggot, interesting name, and well chosen. BT, you keep outdoing yourself with the most hilarious quotes.  G'night.
moots	Mark 1:21-28 Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 8:18 AM Jesus Drives Out an Evil Spirit    21They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. 22The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. 23Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil[e] spirit cried out, 24“What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are–the Holy One of God!”    25“Be quiet!” said Jesus sternly. “Come out of him!” 26The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a shriek.    27The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, “What is this? A new teaching–and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him.” 28News about him spread quickly over the whole region of Galilee.
moots	Gorgeous Day! Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 8:22 AM It's a glorious morning in the Copper Country and the weatherman has promised a beautiful weekend.  Maybe the El Nino effect  has finally kicked in.  Might have to get my canoe onto the big lake tomorrow and see if the steelhead will hit a lure.   moots
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 10:50 AM It's a big relief to see the new government of Iraq finally take shape: Shiite Leader Named Iraq Premier to End 2 Months of Wrangling. The Shiite leader Ibrahim al-Jaafari was appointed Iraq's new prime minister Thursday, crystallizing the leadership of the first elected government in decades and ending more than two months of divisive negotiations. Dr. Jaafari, a doctor and the leader of one of Iraq's major Shiite religious parties, was named by the new president, Jalal Talabani, shortly after Mr. Talabani was sworn into office with his hand on a Koran.   Hours earlier, Ayad Allawi, who has been the prime minister in Iraq's interim government, submitted his resignation, opening the way for the new government to take power. Dr. Allawi will remain head of a caretaker government until a full cabinet is chosen. Another Iraq story today illustrates the exemplary character of American soldiers that all of us can be proud of: Soldiers Try to Bring Iraq Family to U.S.  Though Sgt. 1st Class Shayne Beckert is now safely home from Iraq, he finds his mind going back there late at night. What keeps him on edge is not the safety of his Army buddies. It's the fate of an Iraqi family he left behind. Beckert formed a deep bond with an Iraqi man who became a reliable source of information about insurgent attacks. The man was gunned down in front of his son, and Beckert believes it was because he helped U.S. forces.   "I haven't slept over six hours a night since I've been back, just thinking about him," Beckert said recently as he pored over photos of Iraq with a fellow guardsman, Capt. Grant Wilz. "It's just something that's been nagging on my mind." Now that they're back, the two guardsmen are undertaking one final mission -- bringing the family of their slain friend to the United States. "He became like a brother to us, and we wanted to make sure he and his family were safe," Wilz said. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,294 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 708 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Uncertainty Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 10:53 AM Brian Greene, a mathemetician and physicist with a real gift for explaining things clearly, wrote a wonderful piece commemorating the centennial of Einstein's greatest year: One Hundred Years of Uncertainty. The reason we have for so long been unaware that the universe evolves probabilistically is that for the relatively large, everyday objects we typically encounter - baseballs, flowerpots, the Moon - quantum mechanics shows that the probabilities become highly skewed, hugely favoring one outcome and effectively suppressing all others. A typical quantum calculation reveals that if you tell me the velocity of something as large as a baseball, there is more than a 99.99999999999999 (or so) percent likelihood that it will land at the location I can figure out using the laws of Newton or, for even better accuracy, the laws of Einstein. With such a skewed probability, the quantum reasoning goes, we have long overlooked the tiny chance that the baseball can (and, on extraordinarily rare occasions, will) land somewhere completely different. In mathematics and in physics, uncertainty and randomness are very different concepts. Been There
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:00 AM Moots, Regardless of our chronological ages, neither of us (I trust) accepts the "me generation" philosophy as a positive ideology.   You asked: Do you live by the same standards you judge others? I can say that I do my best to judge myself by the same standards as I do others and that I work hard (although not, I'm sorry to say, always successfully) to live up to them. It's my firm intention always to oppose policies that put short-term gains over the long-term good of humanity, even when that opposition works against my own personal interests. Nevertheless, I know that I'm not immune to self-serving impulses, so the internal battle requires my constant vigilance. One advantage I've found to being open (and sometimes undiplomatic) about my opinions is that this trait encourages my friends, relatives, and acquaintances to call to my attention the missteps I make. Perhaps you've received similar benefits. Been There P.S. Yes, the big lake looks very appealing today.
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:02 AM "Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 19, 2004
moots	Uncertainty Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:27 AM BT writes,   Brian Greene, a mathemetician and physicist with a real gift for explaining things clearly, wrote a wonderful piece commemorating the centennial of Einstein's greatest year: One Hundred Years of Uncertainty. The reason we have for so long been unaware that the universe evolves probabilistically is that for the relatively large, everyday objects we typically encounter - baseballs, flowerpots, the Moon - quantum mechanics shows that the probabilities become highly skewed, hugely favoring one outcome and effectively suppressing all others. A typical quantum calculation reveals that if you tell me the velocity of something as large as a baseball, there is more than a 99.99999999999999 (or so) percent likelihood that it will land at the location I can figure out using the laws of Newton or, for even better accuracy, the laws of Einstein. With such a skewed probability, the quantum reasoning goes, we have long overlooked the tiny chance that the baseball can (and, on extraordinarily rare occasions, will) land somewhere completely different. In mathematics and in physics, uncertainty and randomness are very different concepts. Yeah, like I was saying, it's a nice day today.     moots
moots	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 12:12 PM The "me" generation began in the garden and died on the cross.
Been There	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 1:02 PM Moots,   Are you sure of that? My reading of the Bible (as a whole) leads me to exactly the opposite conclusion.   Been There
Been There	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 1:05 PM Moots,   Sorry, I misread what you posted. Please ignore my last, very foolish, reply. (Wrong garden.)   Been There
moots	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 2:25 PM I think we've all had those "lights on, no one at home" moments. Unfortunately it doesn't interfere with our ability to type at all.  Have a good weekend.
moots	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 3:28 PM BT got me thinking..mebbe my effort to be pithy is becoming cryptic.  Lest I throw anyone else a curve, here's the amplified version.   The "me" generation began (with the fall of man) in the garden (of Eden) and died (with Christ) on the cross.   The Apostle Paul writes   I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Galations 2:20 Amen.  End of Sermon.  Stick that in yore pipes and smoke it, or in yore cheeks and ruminate some.  Have a good weekend, enjoy that spring sunshine and stay outtem dark dens of iniquity.   moots
Been There	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Friday, April 08, 2005 5:23 PM Moots,   Good of you to clear that up in case anyone else is as dense as I was. I caught your meaning only after I made my too-hasty first response.   At first I mistakenly thought that the garden you meant was Gethsemane (because of the Cross context) and that you were actually endorsing a "me generation" philosophy. After I posted, I decided that I had to be wrong about that, and so read your post again in a more thoughtful way.   You have a great weekend too. It's a blessing to be alive and in the Keweenaw these days.   Been There
look2it	other than stochastic processes..... Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:00 AM Ya thanks, I wouldn't have gotten it right either no matter how much I read it. Have a great weekend all! G'night.
Norway	Around the Kitchen Table Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 8:15 AM Birch Bark "How do you feel about the world outlook for the rest of 2005?"   Very sad to say...  as of last November, I am afraid I have given up.  I thought even before the war, that the American people would not let the Bush gang, get away with one lie after another, but I was very much mistaken.  There is nothing that can stop them on their mission to build an Empire. Not even words from the Pope could sway the Catholic Americans who want to believe in America's decisions ....  "right or wrong."    I have been following the posts of Been There, since before the war, taking solace in the fact that someone else shared my views.  It is no longer helpful, .....however, I will continue to pray for America, for the sake of my grandchildren.  I will continue to pray for our soldiers that were duped into the military....  and for the families of the 100,000 Iraqis that we have killed, and let us not forget those who have been falsely imprisoned, and severely injured.   The only friends America has left, are the ones we can afford to purchase.  I am not sure we can afford to purchase enough, to help protect us from the thousands of  "would be"  terrorists, waiting in line, to fight the Republican's Crusade.    My concerns for the world outlook are many.....  not just for the rest of 2005, but far into the future. Perhaps I haven't really given up, as I do continue to pray, .....and on occasion I do check on posts from Been There.   Norway
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:01 AM More bad news from Iraq today: G.I. Is Killed as Shiites Gather for Protest Against U.S. An American soldier was killed by a roadside bomb in northern Iraq on Friday, and Shiite protesters began streaming toward the capital for a demonstration against the American presence in Iraq on Saturday, the second anniversary of the fall of Baghdad. The soldier was struck and killed at noon near Hawija, about 30 miles west of the northern city of Kirkuk, American military officials said in a statement. An American marine was also killed Wednesday in a vehicle accident during combat operations west of the capital in Anbar Province, military officials said Friday. Followers of Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr made their feelings known today: Thousands of Shiites Stage Anti-U.S. Rally in Baghdad. The protesters filled Firdos Square and spilled onto nearby avenues, waving Iraqi flags. Mimicking the famous images of U.S. soldiers and Iraqis pulling down a statue of Saddam as Baghdad fell, protesters toppled effigies of President Bush, British Prime Minister Tony Blair and Saddam -- all dressed like Iraqi prisoners in red jumpsuits. Other effigies of Bush and Saddam were burned. "Force the occupation to leave from our country," one banner read in English. The Shiite protesters also called for the now-jailed Saddam to face justice, and they held up framed photos of al-Sadr's father, a prominent cleric executed by Saddam. Mahdi Army militiamen searched people entering the demonstration area as Iraqi policemen stood to the side. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,295 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 709 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	The Family Tree Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:03 AM It's always fascinating to learn more about our ancestors: Remains Believed To Be From Earliest Known Ancestor. Scientists who three years ago discovered a nearly complete 7 million-year-old skull in central Africa have dug up additional evidence supporting the conclusion that the skull belonged to the earliest known human ancestor. The new findings -- two jaw bones and an upper premolar tooth -- lend credence to the proposition that the creature was probably among the first hominid, or human-like, primates to live after humans and chimpanzees diverged from each other a little more than 7 million years ago. Researchers said the new fossils, along with a sophisticated computer reconstruction of the previously discovered skull, solidify the remains' stature as among the most important paleological finds of the past several decades. Together they paint a picture of an ancestral primate with a chimpanzee-sized body and brain but a face and teeth more like those of modern humans. In other words, they looked a lot like me. Been There
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:07 AM Nicholas Kristof, who constantly mines the Keweenaw Now discussion boards for column ideas, wrote this timely piece for publication today: Nukes Are Green. But it's time for the rest of us to drop that hostility to nuclear power. It's increasingly clear that the biggest environmental threat we face is actually global warming, and that leads to a corollary: nuclear energy is green. Nuclear power, in contrast with other sources, produces no greenhouse gases. So President Bush's overall environmental policy gives me the shivers, but he's right to push ahead for nuclear energy. There haven't been any successful orders for new nuclear plants since 1973, but several proposals for new plants are now moving ahead - and that's good for the world we live in. Global energy demand will rise 60 percent over the next 25 years, according to the International Energy Agency, and nuclear power is the cleanest and best bet to fill that gap. Not green exactly, to my way of thinking, but the best of a bad lot. Been There
Been There	Bleak Outlook from Norway Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:10 AM Norway, The pendulum has a way of swinging back and forth, and someday the liars, thieves, and thugs who've entrenched themselves in Washington will be out. In the meantime, true Americans must keep the spotlight on their activities and work hard to limit the damage they do to our nation. Don't lose heart! Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 10:11 AM "The march to war affected the people's confidence. It's hard to make investment. See, if you're a small business owner or a large business owner and you're thinking about investing, you've got to be optimistic when you invest. Except when you're marching to war, it's not a very optimistic thought, is it? In other words, it's the opposite of optimistic when you're thinking you're going to war." —George W. Bush, Springfield, Mo., Feb. 9, 2004
nm420	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:29 PM moots, I must agree with the importance of moving beyond the us vs. them mindset. It is quite obnoxious and destructive, though it would appear to be built in to our innate human nature (our "original sin", if you will call it such). We quite naturally group things into various categories, and it is not that far of an extension to start pigeonholing other humans into rigid labels. In many instances, discrimination is a useful tool, but it turns sour rather quickly when we forget that these labels are arbitrarily chosen and do not represent the whole of reality. I must take you to task, however, over the "technology is democratic" statement. There are a few technologies extant today which could be called democratic, as they are freely available to anyone with a competent brain and pair of hands. It would seem that the majority of technologies which we are surrounded by are more authoritarian than democratic, however. True, many people may be able to understand the scientific principles behind so many of our wondrous gadgets (with enough studying, anyhow) but this does not mean just anybody can go about and develop them. Most of modern techonology requires an initial investment which proves to be insurmountable for anyone without a lot of money or friends in high places. Sure, these things can be produced in a "free" market and sold to the masses, but the decision-making process is relatively buffered from any influence by the majority of people. Ideally, the consumer is the ultimate arbiter of the worthiness of some particular technology, but when the majority of the populace is on auto-pilot for most of their waking lives, this ideal becomes more and more fantastical.
nm420	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:33 PM Forgive me for sounding ignorant, but can anyone give some pointers on how to place new lines and tabs in these posts? I realize it's slightly irritating to read one humongous paragraph with no breaks to delimit changes in the flow, yet I've no clue how to add these to my posts.
Lynn Torkelson	Help Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:55 PM nm420,   I really need to write up a Help document for these boards, but moderating is a volunteer effort for me and I just haven't had the time.   If you push the Enter key twice - as I did above - you get a new paragraph. If you are editing your post in Notepad, or something of the kind, before pasting it into the Edit window, leave two lines between each paragraph.   This approach circumvents the actions that browsers perform to condense "unnecessary" white space into an unreadable blob.   You can also select portions of text to make bold, to italicize, to color, to associate with a hyperlink, to indent, or to justify, by clicking on one of the icons above the Text window - if you use Internet Explorer.   Birch Bark
Cousin Jack	Around the Kitchen Table Posted: Saturday, April 09, 2005 6:59 PM Norway writes:   I will continue to pray for our soldiers that were duped into the military....  and for the families of the 100,000 Iraqis that we have killed, and let us not forget those who have been falsely imprisoned, and severely injured.   If you are looking for an accurate account of civilian Iraqi deaths since the war began you might begin by looking at the Iraqi Body Count website where it is estimated that between 17,000 to 20,000 civilians have been killed since the U.S. military invasion began. According to UNICEF, while Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq during the multi-year UN Containment policy which preceded the invasion, approximately 60,000 Iraqi children under 5 years of age were dying annually.   Meanwhile, courageous Iraqis liberated from the 3 decade long Saddam Hussein regime nightmare, are now working hard to build their own democracy. Work made possible by those "duped" soldiers of the "Bush Gang" whose ongoing "Crusade" for "Empire" is nowhere in sight.   CJ
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:14 AM Cousin Jack wrote: According to UNICEF, while Saddam Hussein ruled Iraq during the multi-year UN Containment policy which preceded the invasion, approximately 60,000 Iraqi children under 5 years of age were dying annually. These issues were much in the news in February of 2003, just before the U.S. attacked Iraq. For example, this piece, reprinted by Common Dreams, appeared in the Boston Globe: Humanitarian Consequences of War in Iraq. According to a study conducted by UNICEF, children have to drink water which, in up to 40 percent of sample cases, contains up to 10 times the acceptable level of contamination. Until the treatment and disposal of sewage is properly done, children will continue to suffer high rates of diarrheal infections. Currently, one in every five children is chronically malnourished, and one in three girls does not attend primary school due to deepening poverty and lack of schools. Malnutrition is an important and comprehensive indicator of children's well-being because it is a reflection of the functioning of several sectors in society. A significant contributing factor for the very high rates of children's malnutrition is the breakdown of power grids and water distribution networks following the last two major wars and more than a decade of international sanctions against the Iraqi regime. Before these events, the Iraqi people had the best health care services in the region. Almost two-thirds of the Iraqi population -- between 14 million and 16 million people -- depend solely on a monthly food entitlement of approximately 2,200 calories per day. Although the food distribution system now works efficiently, the whole program risks becoming paralyzed shortly after the war starts again. Although Cousin Jack does not (for some reason) provide a link to what UNICEF actually said about the children of Iraq before we attacked that country, I will do so: The Children of Iraq. Child Health and Mortality in Iraq The health of Iraq's children is not only linked to nutrition, but also to the country's water supply. Even though Iraq has a relatively sophisticated water supply network by regional standards, the system is breaking down, putting the health of millions of children and adults at risk. Two wars and twelve years of international sanctions have taken a toll. The UN Oil for Food Programme, which was established in 1996, allows humanitarian goods and supplies to be imported into Iraq, but the programme does not currently make funds available for transportation, installation and maintenance of equipment, nor for staff training and the rehabilitation of basic infrastucture such as water, sewage treatment plants, and hospitals. If the "Bush gang" had argued that attacking Iraq was the best way to resolve the problems of malnutrition and impure water faced by Iraqi children, we would have been able to have that debate. Instead, Bush chose as his pretext for war Iraq's imaginary weapons of mass destruction. Cousin Jack, I don't see you calling now for a U.S. invasion of Sudan. Isn't the crisis in Darfur more amenable to a military solution than the crisis in Iraqi children's health ever was? We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,296 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 710 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2005 9:17 AM "I want to thank the astronauts who are with us, the courageous spacial entrepreneurs who set such a wonderful example for the young of our country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 14, 2004
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2005 1:58 PM Been There writes: If the "Bush gang" had argued that attacking Iraq was the best way to resolve the problems of malnutrition and impure water faced by Iraqi children, we would have been able to have that debate. Instead, Bush chose as his pretext for war Iraq's imaginary weapons of mass destruction. Cousin Jack, I don't see you calling now for a U.S. invasion of Sudan. Isn't the crisis in Darfur more amenable to a military solution than the crisis in Iraqi children's health ever was?   We've been through all this before, BT and I'm not going to reargue it again. WMD was just one of many pretexts for the war as anyone who has read Colin Powell's February 5, 2003 presentation to the UN Security Council realizes. Here, from his concluding remarks: Underlying all that I have said, underlying all the facts and the patterns of behavior that I have identified, is Saddam Hussein's contempt for the will of this Council, his contempt for the truth, and, most damning of all, his utter contempt for human life.  Saddam Hussein's use of mustard and nerve gas against the Kurds in 1988 was one of the 20th century's most horrible atrocities.  Five thousand men, women and children died.  His campaign against the Kurds from 1987 to '89 included mass summary executions, disappearances, arbitrary jail and ethnic cleansing, and the destruction of some 2,000 villages. He has also conducted ethnic cleansing against the Shia Iraqis and the Marsh Arabs whose culture has flourished for more than a millennium.  Saddam Hussein's police state ruthlessly eliminates anyone who dares to dissent.  Iraq has more forced disappearance cases than any other country -- tens of thousands of people reported missing in the past decade. Nothing points more clearly to Saddam Hussein's dangerous intentions and the threat he poses to all of us than his calculated cruelty to his own citizens and to his neighbors.  Clearly, Saddam Hussein and his regime will stop at nothing until something stops him.   If Sudan had a similar aggressive expansionist history against its neighboring nations as the Saddam Hussein regime had, had a record of using WMD in the past, was believed to still have WMD by every intelligence agency in the world, and was sitting upon the 2nd largest oil reserves on the planet, then I think the military removal of Sudan's regime might well be a wise and generous geopolitical move by all concerned if attempts at UN diplomacy and sanctions had failed (and I do think btw that the UN should be more strongly pursuing a resolution to Sudan's conflict than they have been as Nicholas Kristof has eloquently argued in several Op-Ed pieces).   My point, with respect to Norway's post (and was Norway lamenting the much larger long term loss of Iraqi life before the U.S. invasion?) is that America should not be singled out as the bad guy here despite some of the mistakes that have been made. Despite the lack of WMD in Iraq, uncertainty over their present existence (and future creation of) has now ended. The decades of brutal tyranny and expansionist aggression are over and the Iraqis now freed from this long running totalitarian dictatorship have a chance to build a bright democratic future in the Persian Gulf. By doing so they can also serve as a catalyst and model for other Arabic countries in the region to do likewise and may already done so vis-a-vis the very recent democratic reforms (and expressions for reform) as seen in Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Lebanon.   CJ
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 10, 2005 5:04 PM BTW, just to clarify, I got the UNICEF figure from a March 11, 2003 Walter Russell Mead Op-Ed in the Washington Post (now archived), which I quoted from on the earlier K-NOW forum (March 17, 2003):   "The Gulf War killed somewhere between 21,000 and 35,000 Iraqis, of whom between 1,000 and 5,000 were civilians. Based on Iraqi government figures, UNICEF estimates that containment kills roughly 5,000 Iraqi babies (children under 5 years of age) every month, or 60,000 per year. Other estimates are lower, but by any reasonable estimate containment kills about as many people every year as the Gulf War -- and almost all the victims of containment are civilian, and two-thirds are children under 5. (snip) Ever since U.N.-mandated sanctions took effect, Iraqi propaganda has blamed the United States for deliberately murdering Iraqi babies to further U.S. foreign policy goals. Wrong. The sanctions exist only because Saddam Hussein has refused for 12 years to honor the terms of a cease-fire he himself signed. In any case, the United Nations and the United States allow Iraq to sell enough oil each month to meet the basic needs of Iraqi civilians. Hussein diverts these resources. Hussein murders the babies. But containment enables the slaughter. Containment kills."   For the entire Walter Russell Mead Op-Ed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A13019-2003Mar11.html   CJ
look2it	The Iraq War Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:00 AM Must be getting addicted to this thing. Took in the play this weekend because I saw it on the front page here and had a nice time. Nice to see students and older people working together! Even a police chief was in the cast. G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:11 AM Cousin Jack wrote: Meanwhile, courageous Iraqis liberated from the 3 decade long Saddam Hussein regime nightmare, are now working hard to build their own democracy. Some are, some aren't. We won't know the final result until some time after the U.S. military occupation ends. We can all hope that the Iraqis take more responsibility for establishing a decent government than they did 30 years ago. If enough Iraqis want to establish an Iran-like state, however, we won't be able to prevent them forever any more than we were able to thwart the will of the Vietnamese. Current White House plans would leave substantial U.S. troop deployments in Iraq until shortly before the next presidential elections. Rove's thinking is that a short enough time frame between withdrawal and the U.S. elections won't allow the established government of Iraq to be overthrown (if that actually happens) until after the next president takes office. For now, the military situation in Iraq is the same as last year, following a spike in violence in the period of the Iraq elections: Possible Cut in Troops in Iraq. Attacks on allied forces have dropped to 30 to 40 a day, down from an average daily peak of 140 in the prelude to the Jan. 30 elections but still roughly at the levels of a year ago. Only about half the attacks cause casualties or damage, but on average one or more Americans die in Iraq every day, often from roadside bombs. ...   Sizable numbers of Special Operations forces, intelligence personnel and surveillance systems will probably remain in Iraq or nearby countries to help quell the insurgency. Gen. John P. Jumper, the Air Force chief of staff, said, "I think we're there for a long time." We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,297 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 711 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 10:13 AM "The war on terror involves Saddam Hussein because of the nature of Saddam Hussein, the history of Saddam Hussein, and his willingness to terrorize himself." —George W. Bush, Grand Rapids, Mich., Jan. 29, 2003
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:17 PM nm420,   A few observations.  Your are correct that technological development generally requires a lot of money, good grant writing skills, a position in a well-funded corporate R&D department, a position in a university, a position in a university or whatever combination of the above.  Still, because it springs from the interest and creative passion of individual human minds, working in synergy with similar minds in an intellectual ferment - it has a way of leaking out across institutional and government boundaries.  Despite all our patent offices, intellectual property laws and anti-nuclear proliferation treaties, technology is nearly impossible to contain in the long term.  For that reason I think it tends to become a levelling "democratic"  force, perhaps not so much on the individual as on international level.  I also suspect that the creation of knowledge is not necessarily a function of how much money and resources can be thrown at a challenge - I believe the individual tinkerers, hackers and lab rats will be continue to prying open countless Pandora's boxes keep the unintended consequences damage control folks employed for the forseeable future.   With regard to your statement: Sure, these things can be produced in a "free" market and sold to the masses, but the decision-making process is relatively buffered from any influence by the majority of people. Ideally, the consumer is the ultimate arbiter of the worthiness of some particular technology, but when the majority of the populace is on auto-pilot for most of their waking lives, this ideal becomes more and more fantastical.   How can one so young as not to remember that the "Enter" key was originally the "CR"  carriage return key on that magical machine called the typewriter be so cynical regarding the "masses"?  Remember lad, that you and I belong to those masses, and their weaknesses and failings are ours too.  There is a huge difference, I think, between wanting to change people, and wanting to see us change.   moots
moots	Bleak Outlook from Norway Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 12:33 PM BT,   I would like you to amplify this if you would   The pendulum has a way of swinging back and forth, and someday the liars, thieves, and thugs who've entrenched themselves in Washington will be out. If you regard the current administration as "liars, thieves and thugs" what do you suppose their motives are for being there?  Are they there simply to enrich themselves and enjoy capricious acts of power?  Are they simply brutal goons who like nothing better than torturing helpless people, outsmarting gullible suckers and spreading misery?  How do you really think about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt & company?  Are they reincarnations of Hitler, Goering, Goebels and Himmler?   moots
Norway	Around the Kitchen Table Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 3:48 PM   C J .....  Just to clarify, since you took offence at several of the terms I used.    "Bush gang."   I guess those would be the Republicans who are supporters of The Project For The New American Century.  The P N A C was dreamed up in the early 90s by around 40 rich and powerful gentlemen .....  10 of which  were in the last Bush administration.  I am not sure how many are in this new administration.  One of them (Wolfowitz) has just found his way to be the new leader of the World Bank, after completing his mission of setting up the government in Iraq.  The government that is made up of people approved by this country, most of whom were chased out of Iraq 30 and 40 years ago.  Bush's friend, Chalibi  (sp?),  was a Detroiter for many years....  I believe his family are still Michiganders.   "Empire."  Surely you have heard the U.S.  being accused of this.  You say it is nowhere in sight?  Go to the web site for P N A C.  While you are there, be sure to read the page for their Statement Of Principals.....  and the signatures of those who have signed it.  I am sure you will recognize most of the names.  Yes....  even Jeb Bush.   http://www.newamericancentury.org/ I guess some Americans think this arrogance is good for America, and the world.  I am sorry, I don't.  Last I heard, I was still allowed to have an opinion, even thou the Bush administration has made that unpopular, if it is not in agreement  with them.    "Crusade"  I am sure you don't liken the U.S. involvement in the Mid East to  "The Crusades", .....but millions of Arabs do......  and that is the danger. (I wasn't speaking of a "crusade for empire" as you said.)     "Duped"  My nephew will be in Iraq, for at least the next year.  He most certainly feels he was "duped."  My daughter's friend who just got back, certainly feels that he was "duped".  You don't have to go to Michael  Moore's web site, to find solders reporting that.   Please don't start me on the children who were dying because of sanctions.  Our plan was to put the squeeze on the Iraqi people, so that they would get rid of Saddam....  but they didn't. They saw it as Americas fault.  Before the first Gulf War, the Iraqi people had food, gas, medical and college, that was free, or cheaper than dirt.  Since then, it has been a struggle to just exist.   Please don't tell me again about the deeds of Saddam, and of the gassings etc.  We were backers of him at that time.  Shame on us!   Powell's speech sounded good to Americans who didn't know our past foreign policies, but not to me.  Saddam fought Iran for us.....  remember?  Do you remember how pleased Rumsfeld (also a member of P N A C) was with him then?    The word was that we had killed 100,000 Iraqis.  If it has been reduced to 20,000 reported cases....  good!  That is 80,000 less families who need our prayers.     Where do the lies begin, and where do they end?     Moots,   The Project For The New American Century provides the motive, as I see it.  I can't speak for Been There.   Norway
nm420	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 4:50 PM Alas, I will be stuck without the carraige return for now, as I've experimented a number of times on how many times to hit the "Return" button between paragraphs. I'll even hit it four times now. It may be that I'm using Mozilla rather than explorer, but I'll just cope for the time being, as I suspect everyone else shall. It is true that I am so young as to have never used a typewriter, but what you find to be cynicial I find to be empirical. It is not that I have no hope for the future; I can dream as well as most. It is not that I exclude myself from my condemnations, either. I am well aware of my own faults; I would like to say that I never put myself on auto-pilot, but that would be a lie. Nevertheless, a quick perusal of the history books supports the idea that the "masses" are easily manipulated. It seems to me that this is because they do not think critically enough of their leaders, hence the "auto-pilot" comment. Deception and authoritarianism seem to be as deeply rooted in human civilizations as are compassion and community, as contradictory as such a statement appears. Since the dawn of time there have been some people studying how to get what they want out of others, some people who have seen through such guises and are rightly appalled, and the rest who are, for the most part, oblivious to such power plays. Of course things aren't as cut and dry as that, but it certainly explains a lot of the emergent patterns from history. After hitting "Return" seven more times, allow me to go back to the technology debate. I certainly agree that the accumulation of knowledge can be construed as democratic, on both international and individual levels. But I'm sure that I don't need to remind you that technology is not knowledge itself, but the application of knowledge in the real world. What good does it do me if I know the principles behind how a television works, even the principles behind manufacturing one, if I will never have the means to produce one or the power to decide what gets broadcast over the "public domain"? Rather, I must rely on the manufacturers to produce the type of TV I would envision and the producers to generate the kind of images I would wish to see. While it is true that large enough groups of people can make their voices heard in the ideal marketplace, instances of this occurrence in today's world seem to be the exception rather than the rule. This is what I would call authoritarianism. If this technology were truly democratic, we would see a plethora of different types of televisions and television shows. What diversity truly exists if the myriad of products offered are based on just a few models and there are over 400 channels of virtually the same junk? If this technology were democratic, I should be able to produce my own show and make it available to all who would choose to view it, but this is not the reality of the situation. In that respect, the Internet could be viewed as a democratic technology, though even this has some authoritarian qualities to it. Once you are hooked up, you can find virtually anything to suit your fancy, or make it yourself if you are so inclined. However, the key is that you have to hook up to it through a provider. This provider may decide to block certain priveleges from you, or cut your service at their own leisure. Again, the marketplace is supposed to guarantee us freedom from such abuses, but I remain skeptical (not cynical). It is within the realm of plausibility that severely restrictive regulations could be placed on Internet activity, destroying this democratic technology. These are just a coupld of examples. A closer look at practically any modern technology will reveal similar conclusions, though. There are rather few technologies that could be considered democratic, in that they are fully open to use, and abuse, by any individual.
Lynn Torkelson	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Monday, April 11, 2005 6:31 PM nm420,   I see what's happening and will include a way for you to separate paragraphs (this weekend, I hope). In the meantime, enter those carriage returns and I'll insert paragraphs manually, as I did this evening with your last two posts.     look2it,   Maybe we attended one of the same performances. I went twice, opening night and Sunday afternoon. (One of my sons was in the cast, so I had even more than the normal interest!)   Birch Bark
look2it	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:07 AM BB, I went Saturday so we didn't cross paths there. Which was your son, if you don't mind my asking? nm420 and Norway, thanks for joining in with thoughtful posts. I agree with lots of what you say but have too short an attention span to write it all down. G'night.
Cousin Jack	April Come She Has Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 3:21 AM Whoopie O-Ki-Yay! Baseball's returned to Twin Town, Johan Santana is back in the Cy Young Groove, and this is the least atmospheric April cruelty I've felt since i can't remember when...(knock knock knockin' on Tiger's wood)...   Bravo, Norway! I took no "offence", btw, I simply spun your spin right back atcha! There appear to be ruminations buttressing your lamentations and that's a good thing. Will get back to you later this week when I have more time.   BoyOBoy when I saw this morning's Pasty Cam shot of Eagle River Falls I just wanted to jump into my hybrid-fueled Humvee and lumber on up to the Keweenaw.   My 2 cents worth on power-source "technology" tonight: it's how we as a people embed it in our political and economic infrastructure that really impacts us. Who among us can afford to build a micro oil refinery or nuclear reactor in our backyard?  How much freedom do we all lose with the increasing centralization of electrical power? What if everyone had a solar-paneled roof and a wind-powered generator? Might it significantly contribute to energy independence for us and the nation as a whole?    Is the Pope Polish?   Beware the Ides of April, Taxpayer$!   And finally, click this tuneful Smithsonian Music Link for mp3 access to $1 almighty buck tunes that can brighten anyone's day!   Cheers, CJ
moots	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:41 AM Good posts this morning.  Norway, I will think about your statement The Project For The New American Century provides the motive, as I see it.  I can't speak for Been There. It is true that visionary thinking tends toward self -aggrandizement.  The German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was ulitmately implicated in a plot to assassinate Hitler and executed, said something to the effect that "God save us from visions."  I can't remember it accurately, and read it as an isolated quote, so I don't even know the context, but the impression I received is that he was warning the church against the temptation to follow visions, rather than follow Christ.  Visions often seem to contain their own rationale and justification for whatever methods are used to achieve that.  It is not a disease limited to fascism, naziism, and communinism - I would submit it is an almost defining characteristic of anything that ends with -ism, including conservatism, liberalism, environmentalism, humanism, rationalism...etc.   nm420, thank you for your thoughtful post and your willingness to take my jibe with good humor.  You have shown good grace in honoring the Right of Old Bucks to Needle Young Punks, and you have earned my respect.  I will think about what you wrote and perhaps make a few observations later.   moots
Been There	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:25 AM More news today on the potential pitfalls of nuclear power: Nuclear Plants Not Keeping Track of Waste. Pervasive problems plague the control of radioactive waste at the nation's nuclear power plants, in part because the federal government has been sluggish in instituting and enforcing safeguards, according to a federal report issued yesterday. The Government Accountability Office's indictment of the nuclear facilities and the Nuclear Regulatory Commission is the most comprehensive reckoning to date of problems that have begun to emerge at a number of plants in recent years. Inadequate oversight and gaps in safety procedures have left several plants unsure about the whereabouts of all their spent fuel, the GAO said, and problems in tracking the materials suggest that radioactive rods could be missing from more than the three plants that are widely known to have problems. Clearly a single, controlled repository for nuclear waste would make accounting for the waste much more reliable. Been There
Been There	Bleak Outlook from Norway Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:31 AM Moots, You asked: How do you really think about Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeldt & company?  Are they reincarnations of Hitler, Goering, Goebels and Himmler? Of course not. But I do not shy away from calling a spade a spade: When someone repeatedly bears false witness, he is a liar. When someone takes from others without permission, he is a thief. When someone uses intimidation and bullying to accomplish his ends and conceal his misdeeds, he is a thug. You asked: If you regard the current administration as "liars, thieves and thugs" what do you suppose their motives are for being there? Politicians of every stripe often find it convenient to excuse their misdeeds on the grounds that "the ends justify the means." Those excuses cut no ice with me, so I waste no time speculating about their motives. Been There
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:35 AM Norway, You wrote: My nephew will be in Iraq, for at least the next year.  He most certainly feels he was "duped."  My daughter's friend who just got back, certainly feels that he was "duped". I know several in the military who feel the same way. Patriots who sign up to defend their nation should never be misused as Bush has done. Cousin Jack, You wrote: My point...is that America should not be singled out as the bad guy here despite some of the mistakes that have been made. But this is the country of my citizenship, so I bear a citizen's responsibility for its actions. That fact automatically singles it out for special scrutiny from me and from every responsible citizen. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,298 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 712 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:36 AM "This foreign policy stuff is a little frustrating." —George W. Bush, New York, April 23, 2002
moots	Bleak Outlook from Norway Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 10:57 AM BT,   So you do not impute evil motives to the Bush administration?  I would suggest that using the terms "liars, thieves and thugs" strongly implies that you are quite convinced that their motives are bad, which in turn colors your perception, does it not?  I don't think many prosecuting attourneys would last long in their positions if they were unable to present credible motives - which suggests that your agenda is suspect.   If you wish to continue using invective, I think in fairness you should make the case for evil motives.  Otherwise, I would suggest you limit your pejoratives  to the realm of "stupid, lazy, incompetent, etc." which are human weaknesses and failures that do not necessarily require malevolent motives.   moots
moots	Mark 1:29-34 Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 12:37 PM Jesus Heals Many    29As soon as they left the synagogue, they went with James and John to the home of Simon and Andrew. 30Simon's motherinlaw was in bed with a fever, and they told Jesus about her. 31So he went to her, took her hand and helped her up. The fever left her and she began to wait on them.    32That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demonpossessed. 33The whole town gathered at the door, 34and Jesus healed many who had various diseases. He also drove out many demons, but he would not let the demons speak because they knew who he was.
Cousin Jack	Nuclear Power Plant?!!!! Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 8:59 PM Moots writes: The German theologian Dietrich Bonhoeffer, who was ulitmately implicated in a plot to assassinate Hitler and executed, said something to the effect that "God save us from visions."  I can't remember it accurately, and read it as an isolated quote, so I don't even know the context, but the impression I received is that he was warning the church against the temptation to follow visions, rather than follow Christ.  Visions often seem to contain their own rationale and justification for whatever methods are used to achieve that.  It is not a disease limited to fascism, naziism, and communinism - I would submit it is an almost defining characteristic of anything that ends with -ism, including conservatism, liberalism, environmentalism, humanism, rationalism...etc. Though I'm familiar with Bonhoeffer's role in the July 20, 1944 attempt to assassinate Hitler and his subsequent execution, I'm not familiar with the "God save us from visions" quote. Visions, however, are not "isms". The Old Testament is full of prophets who had visions and Jesus is following in their footsteps with his 40 day fast in the wilderness after his baptism anointment. And he returned from that fast with his gospel that the Kingdom of Heaven was at hand. Poetic vision quests like this are quite common in the founding of many mythologies and religions around the world as Joseph Campbell richly illustrated in his The Hero With A Thousand Faces and other books.    "Isms" are better described as intellectual or ideological constructions. Marxism is probably the most famous example of an "ism" coopted by political leaders toward disastrous ends (in this case, Communism) even though Lenin and later Mao may have begun with idealistic aims. Such "isms" are created by analytical reasoning and systematic thought and Marx spent many years in a London library researching and elaborating his.   CJ
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 9:45 PM Been There writes: Norway, You wrote: My nephew will be in Iraq, for at least the next year.  He most certainly feels he was "duped."  My daughter's friend who just got back, certainly feels that he was "duped". I know several in the military who feel the same way. Patriots who sign up to defend their nation should never be misused as Bush has done.   As personal as your anecdotes are (and I respect the opinions of any and all participants involved in this armed forces effort), the most recent military poll I could find (Military Times Poll-January 3, 2005) lists a 63% approval of the way that George Bush is "handling the situation with Iraq" while 20% disapprove. 71% approve of "the way George Bush is handling his job as president" while only 16% disapprove. When asked whether the U.S. should have gone to war with Iraq, 60% say yes and 20% say no. Of all those who were polled, only 54% have actually been deployed overseas in either Iraq or Afghanistan which may account for the fact that 17% either had no opinion or declined to answer. IMO, it would have been more revealing if this poll had itemized the percentages of those who had deployed versus those who hadn't. Still, as a pool, I would put more trust in the opinions of this sector of the American populace than in any other as they are actually engaged in the day to day peacekeeping processes involved in stablizing Iraq whether by direct deployment or by indirect engagement vis-a-vis the military communications loop. In either case one might reasonably assume that after the successful elections on January 30th, the decreasing  number of insurgency attacks and the subsequent downturn in military casualties, the approval ratings listed above may be on the increase.   CJ
Cousin Jack	Donors Conference on Sudan Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:00 PM Just caught this at google news before logging off tonight.   World Leaders Pledge $4.5 Billion for Sudan While Pressing for Peace Pact   OSLO, April 12 - Leaders from more than 50 nations pledged more than $4.5 billion for Sudan in a donors' conference here today, but one official after another warned that continuing violence in Darfur would undermine the peace agreement they were here to support. The Sudanese government and rebels in southern Sudan reached a peace agreement in January after more than 20 years of warfare. But the violence in Darfur's western province - that has already claimed 300,00 lives - broke out anew while those negotiations were under way. "This is time of choosing for Sudan," Deputy Secretary of State Robert B. Zoellick said in an address to the conference this morning. "The leaders of Sudan must realize that the eyes of the world are on Sudan. The world knows what is happening in Darfur, and the government cannot escape the consequences of that knowledge."   One can only hope that this aid pledge will lead to lasting peace in the Darfur region.   CJ
Maggot	The Iraq War Posted: Tuesday, April 12, 2005 11:11 PM yo cousinjack your the onlyone makes sense of teh whole bunch that dumfinn junttila keeps takign pictures of smobanks andbureid cars like wewanted tothikn about winter anymor  i cnat always keepup with you but yo seemlik yo got yo head on strait the rest of them thot they said trains wehn they passt out the brains and stept out for abeer not that i could careless if peolpe r stupid and wantthe whoel world to no how dum they r most of them coudnt careless abuot sombodylike me yeah them soldier no wats goign on ovr in irag an god blessem it aint an easy placeto be at least they got smoks adn donthave topayand armr alegto lihgt up onc in awile yor rite aboutsring tho notlike that dum greatscott whose alraedy missing wintr like weaint had enough ofit tolast us a thuosandyears you cant hadly get anyone to takl to you onthis dum websit mostof em ar so highand mighty and coldnt giveyo thetimeof day corse what wood yo expetc ina place wherall they wanna dois argu nukes anpolitics and religon i think luktuit mite be allrite coz she dont blablik most women ive known says her peice and shuts up dont keep bitchin and pissinand moning abot how the countrys goin to hellin a handbaksetlik binther orpushin her religon on a guylik moots doz but hei its a free country and i let everone be whose they wanta be unles tehy wishin for som new iceag lik that dum gratescott must be rakin it in handoverfist sellin snomobiels or somthin corse hemay nobe sobad onec he loosnesup like isay i lik everone and lettem eachgo his ownway be a much bettr cuoutry ifevyrone treetedeverone elswiht respectan didnlook downteher noeslik yo was dirtand wasnt so hingand mightey rigteus and woodnt mindto helpa guyout wo neded a littel hepl yo hava goodsprign coz you atleast havthe sensto apreciate it - magnus
look2it	April Come She Has Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:31 AM CJ, yes April is here and smiles are everywhere! Had my taxes in at the end of Jan. so I can enjoy the next few days too. Still a bit of snow, but won't last long now. G'night.
Norway	The Iraq War Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:41 AM CJ   My own private poll, of those I know, who have actually been in Iraq.....  2 out of 2..... feel duped.   Bottom line.... Do you believe in this war, enough  to ask your child to give up his or her life for it?  Since you know that I believe this war was contrived, yes indeed with a motive.....  you know my answer.   Preview to article......  and link below......   "Cowan gave his imprimatur to all of this, going so far as to hint that many soldiers still believe they are fighting the enemy who attacked the United States on 9/11, an idea that has been thoroughly debunked by the 9/11 Commission, but one which pro-war types drag out in a desperate attempt to justify what is shaping up to be an unmitigated disaster in Iraq. Gibson hopped right on the the Iraq-is-linked-to-Al-Qaeda bandwagon as well.   This Military Times Poll is nothing but a readers' survey masquerading as a genuine poll. Yet, in spite of this, it has been trumpeted hither and yon as a broadbased indicator of troop support for the war. " http://www.newshounds.us/2004/12/28/military_times_poll_misleading_but_praised_by_fox_analyst_anyway.php Norway
moots	Another Fine Day! Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 8:46 AM Yo Magnus/Maggot, however your friends call you.   I doff my cap to you, for you have raised the bar on posting style and elegance so high that I can only gaze upward in amazement. You have packed more meat into a single sentence than I could in many paragraphs.  I count it a privilege to sit at your feet, as I have at the feet of  Coppernickus,  who is, apparently, no longer extant.   You're  right about spring.  I don't smoke, but when the snow starts melting I think back on my highschool days when my buddy and I would walk down the railroad tracks in March and find a sunny place on a hillside where the sun had melted.  I'd bum a cigarette and we'd talk about life in general.  Too bad smoking is bad for your health because to this day I occasionally get a craving for a cigarette when the sun is hot and the snow is just starting to melt.  Enjoy the melt, the bugs will be here soon enough.   moots
moots	Visions Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 9:04 AM CJ,   I believe Bonhoeffer was referring to visions in the more common sense - the "where we see ourselves in 5, 10, 20,100 years from now", typical of the corporate vision statement or the "Thousand Year Reich".  The inherent danger is that we substitute our vision for the future for God, to whom there is no past or future, only the eternal present, "I am".  The visions spoken of in the scriptures fall into another category.   Peter's vision for the future led him to oppose Jesus for speaking about his impending crucifixtion.  Jesus put him in his place sharply with a strong rebuke, "Get behind me, Satan."   "Ism's" I believe all contain a vision of the future, which is not necessarily bad, but tend toward power and control, i.e. the common herd must be brought into subjection to the system for its own good.  Isms I think are inherently elitist, which is what makes them especially attractive to intellectuals.   moots
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:57 AM Norway writes: This Military Times Poll is nothing but a readers' survey masquerading as a genuine poll. Yet, in spite of this, it has been trumpeted hither and yon as a broadbased indicator of troop support for the war. " I had no familiarity with this poll before my google search and thus my posted reservations about it's methodology. I searched for a more recent military forces Annenburg Study like the one taken last fall bad had no luck. Back then, as I posted on November 12, the Annenburg results were: "When it came to the war in Iraq, 64 percent of the military sample said that the situation had been worth going to war over, while 32 percent said it had not. Of those who served in Iraq, Afghanistan or nearby, a smaller share, only 55 percent, said the war had been worth it; 40 percent said it had not." Since the Iraq situation has improved significantly over the past 6 months, again one might reasonably assume the approval ratings within the military ranks have been on the rise. Will keep my eyes posted for more credible polls in the weeks ahead.   CJ
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 11:57 AM More bad news from Iraq today: 9 Iraqi Policemen Killed Trying to Defuse a Bomb; American Taken Hostage. Nine Iraqi policemen were killed today after a bomb exploded while they were trying to dismantle it, a police chief said. Three others were wounded as the bomb went off under an oil pipeline north of Kirkuk, said the head of the police for Kirkuk Province, Gen. Burhan Taib Taha. A fire erupted on the pipeline after the blast, he added. A rash of violent incidents occurred in and around Baghdad today, including a car bomb attack on an American convoy that killed five Iraqis and wounded four American contractors, the United States military said. The bomb went off at about 9:30 a.m. as the convoy carrying civilian workers left the heavily-fortified Green Zone, said Capt. Darren Luke, a coalition press spokesman in Baghdad. In another development, Al-Jazeera satellite television station showed videotape today of what the United States Embassy said appeared to be an American contractor taken hostage on Monday. The hostage, identified by the embassy as Jeffrey Ake of Indiana, news agencies said, was seen holding up his passport as armed and masked insurgents stood at his side. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,299 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 713 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:03 PM You've got quite an entertaining writing style there, Maggot/Magnus (you wouldn't be Moots in disguise though now would ya?). For a minute there I thought I might be reading a Finnglish translation of Finnegan's Wake.   'ave a good one, CJ
Been There	Bleak Outlook from Norway Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:07 PM Moots, In response to my statement about the Bush administration that "those excuses cut no ice with me, so I waste no time speculating about their motives," you wrote: I don't think many prosecuting attourneys would last long in their positions if they were unable to present credible motives... Moots, prosecutors do use motive to bolster a circumstantial case. But when a security camera catches a bank robber or convenience store robber in the act, for example, prosecutors don't need to put forward a motive to convince a judge or jury of the defendant's responsibility for what took place. In fact, when a defendant is clearly guilty, his defenders use motive as a mitigating circumstance.   My personal favorite in this category: "Yes, he stole the case of cigarettes, but it was out of compassion for his mother. She was on her deathbed, suffering from lung cancer, and he wanted to brighten her last days on earth." He Just Couldn't Help It For example, there is no argument about whether or not Sgt. Hasan Akbar killed two officers in Kuwait two years ago: Trial Opens for Sergeant Accused of Killing 2 Officers. His mental condition is a central issue. His lawyers do not dispute that Sergeant Akbar, a member of an engineer battalion at Camp Pennsylvania in the Kuwaiti desert, ambushed three tents as their occupants got ready for bed on the night of March 23, 2003. But, the lawyers say, he was too mentally disturbed to have planned the attack, which also injured 14 people. Anticipating that defense argument, prosecutors promised to provide a "unique look into Sergeant Akbar's mind" through testimony and evidence, including his diary. "When he deployed, he was going to kill these soldiers," said Capt. John Benson, a member of the prosecution team. Facts vs. Motives When you first asked about my statement encouraging Norway not to lose heart about the current mess in Washington, I responded to you by saying: When someone repeatedly bears false witness, he is a liar. When someone takes from others without permission, he is a thief. When someone uses intimidation and bullying to accomplish his ends and conceal his misdeeds, he is a thug. These statements are true regardless of someone's motives.   Around this online kitchen table, I've provided concrete examples of the Bush administration bearing false witness, taking from others without permission, and using intimidation and bullying. I've invited everyone to show where I've misstated the facts. No one has done so. If the Bush administration's defenders know of motives that cast a favorable light on the behaviors I mentioned, I'm willing to consider those motives. In general, though, I don't put much store in arguments of that type. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:12 PM "Neither in French nor in English nor in Mexican." —George W. Bush, Quebec City, Canada, April 21, 2001 Note: President Bush said this to reporters in Canada to emphasize his resolve not to answer their questions.
Cousin Jack	Donors Conference on Sudan Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:17 PM Cousin Jack writes: One can only hope that this aid pledge will lead to lasting peace in the Darfur region.   Hope may not be enough, CJ, according to Kofi Annan's Op-Ed ion today's NY Times. The billions pledged this week can help. But hungry people cannot eat pledges. Through long and bitter experience we've learned that donor pledges often remain unfulfilled. In Cambodia, Rwanda, Liberia and elsewhere, a large percentage of promised funds failed to materialize, and many lives were lost as a result. OK. Fair enough. But more than food aid is needed - we also need to hold the perpetrators of violence in Sudan accountable. The International Commission of Inquiry, which I appointed at the request of the United Nations Security Council, has amply documented the murder, mass rapes, abductions and other atrocities committed in Darfur, as have many others. We know what is happening in Darfur. The question is, why are we not doing more to put an end to it?  Indeed. Why aren't we U.N. Security Council? In this watershed year for Sudan, it is vital that the international community move speedily to provide the resources to consolidate a fragile peace in the south, and to protect civilians from recurring violence in Darfur. We know what we need: money to help win the peace in the south, more African Union boots on the ground to help end the atrocities in Darfur, and political pressure to settle the conflict. It's that simple, and that essential. This is the kind of leadership we need more of from the U.N.'s chief spokeman.Way to go, Kofi!   CJ
Been There	Donors Conference on Sudan Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 12:28 PM Cousin Jack,   The world definitely needs an effective international mechanism to intervene in--and stop--such situations. Perhaps the horror in Sudan, following other similar horrors over the past years, will provide the necessary catalyst.   Been There
moots	Bleak Outlook from Norway Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 1:02 PM BT,   Words have consequences.  Your free use of pejoratives to characterize this administration paints a starkly black/white picture.  This is the type of verbal climate that produces political radicalism and in its worst manifestation, political assassinations.  Although you have made abundantly clear that there is no doubt in your mind, I would nonetheless ask you to admit that as a theoretical possibility and afford this administation the benefit of doubt by toning down your rhetoric.   You may think you are harmlessly venting your frustrations, but your hot air may float more than balloons.  A butterfly flapping its wings in Beijing may be the start of a hurricane in Florida.   It is not as large a step as you may think from rhetorical assassination to actual deeds.   moots
Norway	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 3:26 PM Been There,   Thank you for your encouragement to not loose heart.  I guess you must have put some "umption back in my gumption"......   thou clearly not appreciated by all....        "i think luktuit mite be allrite coz she dont blablik most women ive known says her peice and shuts up dont keep bitchin and pissinand moning abot how the countrys goin to hellin a handbaksetlik"   I will contine making phone calls to my state reps. on important issues, and signing petitions......  trying to keep those "wascley wabbits"  from doing more harm. I will leave you with a link to a web site that I think you may be interested in, if you are not already familar with it.   http://accuracy.org/index.php    Thanks to all.....   for listening to my point of view.   Norway
moots	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 3:53 PM BT,   Sounds like your fan club is pulling out.  Norway seems like too nice a lady for this place, although she did lend an air of civility.  Now all you're left with is the regular misfits and whackos and them that crawl out of the woodwork.  What a joint!   moots
look2it	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 12:21 AM mootsie, Norway seems like a wonderful person with her eyes wide open to what's going on in our country today. Hope she keeps posting. Kind of strange, we have people like Norway here in the UP seeing the world clearly, and then we have a president in the White House who thinks Mexican is a language. Gives me the creeps. G'night.
Cousin Jack	Hiking the Mazomani Trail with Karol of Krakow Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 4:46 AM The day-long hike around the Louisville Swamp began quite pleasantly not long after dawn and Karol was nice enough to break the ice: Jezus Chrystus jest osrodkiem wszechswiata i historii. Do Niego zwraca sie moja mysl i moje serce w tej donioslej godzinie dziejów, w której znajduje sie Kosciól i cala wielka rodzina wspólczesnej ludzkosci. Wish I could say the same for me: Whoa, Daddy-O! I'm just learning Polish. Ease up, eh? I won't bore you with the bi-lingual comedy of errors that ineviteably followed. Scan the last act of Henry V, perhaps, for some kind of cultural facsimile if you so choose.   Until my vocabulary's been seasonably polished, I remain:   Yours Truly,   CJ
moots	Hiking the Mazomani Trail with Karol of Krakow Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 8:44 AM Jaakko Serkku, eli Cousin Jack,   Mene nukkumaan aikaisemmin, ilmeisesti sinulla on univelka.   moots
Been There	Representing the Bush Administration Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:56 AM Not all Republicans endorse the Bush administration's penchant for bullying and intimidation. Colin Powell pointedly declined to endorse John Bolton, Bush's nominee for ambassador to the United Nations. Former Army officer and staunch Republican Carl Ford minced few words in telling Senators what was wrong with rewarding a notorious bully with a position that represents the U.S. to the rest of the world: Condoleezza Rice Orders John Bolton to Trim Mustache. Ford, who has worked for Vice President Dick Cheney and former Secretary of State Colin Powell, told the senators that Bolton was the "quintessential kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy. There are a lot of them around. I'm sure you've met them." "But the fact is that he stands out, that he's got a bigger kick and it gets bigger and stronger the further down the bureaucracy he's kicking." The Republican-controlled committee is expected to approve Bolton's nomination and send it to the full Senate. Democrats did succeed on Wednesday in forcing a delay in the committee vote until next week so State Department officials can be questioned in writing. Commenting to reporters as he emerged from an undisclosed location underneath the vice-president's mansion, Dick Cheney said, "I can't think of a better representative of my administration than John R. Bolton. If Colin Powell had been more like John Bolton, he'd still be Secretary of State." Been There
Been There	1,300 Days Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 9:59 AM Six days after Osama bin Laden's terrorists destroyed the World Trade Center, killing thousands of Americans, President George W. Bush expressed his determination to punish the man responsible: "When I was a kid I remember that they used to put out there in the old west, a wanted poster.  It said:  'Wanted, Dead or Alive.'  All I want and America wants Osama bin Laden brought to justice.  That's what we want." —George W. Bush, September 17, 2001 Americans believed the president would make good on his words. The terrorists did not. Today marks exactly 1,300 days since George W. Bush spoke those words. To date, Osama bin Laden has escaped punishment for his attack on America. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:01 AM "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about Osama bin Laden." —George W. Bush, March 13, 2002
moots	Mark 1:35-39 Posted: Thursday, April 14, 2005 10:41 AM Jesus Prays in a Solitary Place      35Very early in the morning, while it was still dark, Jesus got up, left the house and went off to a solitary place, where he prayed. 36Simon and his companions went to look for him, 37and when they found him, they exclaimed: “Everyone is looking for you!”    38Jesus replied, “Let us go somewhere else–to the nearby villages–so I can preach there also. That is why I have come.” 39So he traveled throughout Galilee, preaching in their synagogues and driving out demons.
look2it	Mark 1:35-39 Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 12:00 AM mootsie, if you would give the translation along with the book and verses it would help your buddies - I mean me you know - who want to make sure you're not slipping in some of your own little edits. BT, you think he'll be caught before 1400 days rolls around? G'night.
moots	Mark 1:40-45 New International Version Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:29 AM A Man With Leprosy      40A man with leprosy[f] came to him and begged him on his knees, “If you are willing, you can make me clean.”    41Filled with compassion, Jesus reached out his hand and touched the man. “I am willing,” he said. “Be clean!” 42Immediately the leprosy left him and he was cured.    43Jesus sent him away at once with a strong warning: 44“See that you don't tell this to anyone. But go, show yourself to the priest and offer the sacrifices that Moses commanded for your cleansing, as a testimony to them.” 45Instead he went out and began to talk freely, spreading the news. As a result, Jesus could no longer enter a town openly but stayed outside in lonely places. Yet the people still came to him from everywhere.
moots	Translation Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 8:54 AM L2,   Glad to see you're paying attention.  I believe that I earlier mentioned that I was copying from the New International Version, but it would be good to include it in the heading for any occasional browsers.  I chose the NIV because it seems to be one of the most readable.  The headings, are of course, not in the original manuscripts, which were not,  I believe, divided into chapters.   My source is this website http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=48&chapter=1&version=31   The only editing I have done is to delete an occasional footnote reference, which would be meaningless without the footnote.  You may also note that I have not added any of my own comments, nor selected passages in response to any postings, but simply posted them in the order they are found in Mark's gospel.   A sidelight that might interest you.  I have been told by someone who has studied Greek  that Mark's Greek is not particularly polished - some would say rather crude. That is perhaps why the English translation comes out in a choppy, almost breathless style.   Have a good weekend.   moots
Been There	Translation Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:09 AM Look2It, If Bush hadn't blundered into Iraq, Osama bin Laden would have faced justice long ago. I certainly hope that he's not free for another 100 days, but who knows? Been There
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:15 AM Two years after our attack on Iraq, made under false pretenses, we are seeing a decline in the casualty rates suffered by our occupation troops. The civil war in Iraq, on the other hand, continues to pick up steam: 19 Iraqis Killed and 60 Hurt by Cars Bombs and Gunfire. A string of suicide attacks and armed assaults in central and northern Iraq on Thursday left at least 19 Iraqis dead and 60 wounded in the second consecutive day of renewed bloodshed. The attacks, a day after a kidnapped American contractor appeared in a videotape surrounded by masked gunmen, echoed the darker days of the insurgency last year. The violence made it clear that the challenges facing the new Iraqi government - which could assume power as soon as Sunday - have not subsided. For the first time, two militant groups claimed in Internet postings that they had collaborated on attacks. Our military still has its hands full though. In northwestern Iraq, near the Syrian border, American military officials continued a virtual siege of the city of Qaim, where suicide bombers drove three cars packed with explosives into an American base on Monday. After the attacks, American armored vehicles backed by helicopters blocked access to the city and fought a major battle with insurgents, killing about two dozen on Tuesday and Wednesday, Iraqi security officials in Qaim said. Meanwhile, Iraqi officials are still working hard to gather evidence of Saddam Hussein's crimes:  Iraqis Find Graves Thought to Hold Hussein's Victims. Investigators have discovered several mass graves in southern Iraq that are believed to contain the bodies of people killed by Saddam Hussein's government, including one estimated to hold 5,000 bodies, Iraqi officials say. Back home, some rich republicans who amassed profits by collaborating with Saddam Hussein also face charges: Texan Is Indicted in Iraq Oil Sales by Hussein Aides. In an indictment, federal authorities in New York said David Bay Chalmers Jr., a Houston oil businessman, and his company, Bayoil U.S.A., made millions of dollars in illegal kickbacks to the Iraqi government while trading oil under the $65 billion aid program. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,301 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 715 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Cleaning the Elephant Tent Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:18 AM Just who is in charge of the White House? Yesterday, President Bush expressed shock at the publicly-announced plans of his own administration: Bush Questions New Passport Rules. The concern expressed by Bush is unusual, since the White House signed off on the change. "When I first read that in the newspaper about the need to have passports, particularly the day crossings that take place, about a million for instance in the state of Texas, I said, 'What's going on here?' " Bush said when asked about the new rules at an American Society of Newspaper Editors convention. I also say, "What's going on here?" Our "me generation" president just doesn't grasp the concept of personal responsibility--not when it applies to him, anyway. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:20 AM "The Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised." —George W. Bush, March 17, 2003
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 3:54 PM Been There writes: Two years after our attack on Iraq, made under false pretenses, we are seeing a decline in the casualty rates suffered by our occupation troops. You just can't resist slipping in a mickey (my italics above) on even some of the better news coming out of Iraq can you BT? Lest our memories become sluggish from revisionist spin in the long troubled aftermath of  "Operation Iraqi Freedom", we need to be reminded now and then that a belief in the existence of Iraqi WMD (based on flawed assumptions and misinformation from exiles with seemingly self-explanatory code names like "Curveball") was not the only pretext for removing the Saddam Hussein regime. Let's have a look once again at the October 2002  "Joint Resolution to Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq": Whereas Iraq persists in violating resolutions of the United Nations Security Council by continuing to engage in brutal repression of its civilian population thereby threatening international peace and security in the region, by refusing to release, repatriate, or account for non-Iraqi citizens wrongfully detained by Iraq, including an American serviceman, and by failing to return property wrongfully seized by Iraq from Kuwait;   Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people;    Whereas the current Iraqi regime has demonstrated its continuing hostility toward, and willingness to attack, the United States, including by attempting in 1993 to assassinate former President Bush and by firing on many thousands of occasions on United States and Coalition Armed Forces engaged in enforcing the resolutions of the United Nations Security Council;   Whereas members of al Qaida, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq; Whereas Iraq continues to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations, including organizations that threaten the lives and safety of American citizens;   Whereas United Nations Security Council Resolution 678 authorizes the use of all necessary means to enforce United Nations Security Council Resolution 660 and subsequent relevant resolutions and to compel Iraq to cease certain activities that threaten international peace and security, including the development of weapons of mass destruction and refusal or obstruction of United Nations weapons inspections in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687, repression of its civilian population in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688, and threatening its neighbors or United Nations operations in Iraq in violation of United Nations Security Council Resolution 949;   Whereas in December 1991, Congress expressed its sense that it "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 687 as being consistent with the Authorization of Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution (Public Law 102-1)," that Iraq's repression of its civilian population violates United Nations Security Council Resolution 688 and "constitutes a continuing threat to the peace, security, and stability of the Persian Gulf region," and that Congress, "supports the use of all necessary means to achieve the goals of United Nations Security Council Resolution 688";   Whereas the Iraq Liberation Act -Public Law 105-338- expressed the sense of Congress that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove from power the current Iraqi regime and promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime;   There are 16 more "Whereas's" listed on the resolution that Congress passed. Note the last "Whereas" which I've italicized (a tried and true font technique I like to call "Latin Spin"). There are those who continue to claim that President Bush never talked about bringing democracy to Iraq before "Operation Iraqi Freedom" began in the spring of 2003 (and carefully note the name of this military "Operation" btw). For those who weren't paying attention back then (and thus feel perhaps they were duped by the already duped) these revisionist's claims simply aren't true and you'll find ample documention at this Instapundit Blog which I came across at Salon today.   Cheers, CJ
Larch	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:21 PM Cousin Jack,   I admire your patient attempts to get Been There to consider the Iraq situation in a more positive light, although your efforts must often seem very futile.  Still, for those of us that view the Bush administration as neither all good nor all bad, you provide a thoughtful balance to these boards.  Thank you.   Larch
look2it	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:55 PM mootsie, thanks. You should know I can't remember from one week to the next! CJ & BT, seems to me the Bushmen were telling us for months we had to invade Iraq to take out their WMDs. If that's not false pretenses, then what is? Larch, help me out with what's good about the Bush administration. Would cheer me up if I had something to hand onto there. G'night, and have a great Saturday all!
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:02 AM Cousin Jack, Nice try, but no amount of obfuscation can whitewash the actions of the Bush adminstration in the rush to war on Iraq. Political Cover Whenever politicians face a tough vote, they skulk around looking for political cover to shield their precious rear ends from the butt-kickings they deserve when things go wrong.  Part of that effort involves loading a bill with reams of whereases, creating a document that can later be pulled, if needed, from the very portion of the anatomy it was designed to protect. Yes, the politicians loaded up the Iraq war authorization with enough whereases to appeal to everyone from foaming-at-the-mouth neocons to soft-headed liberal professors: Whereas Saddam fails to complete the paperwork required by U.N. resolutions... Whereas Saddam is Hitler incarnate... Whereas Saddam plotted against the president's daddy... Whereas Saddam conspires with Texas republicans to rip off millions of humanitarian aid dollars... Whereas Saddam is Stalin incarnate... Whereas Saddam's continued existence reminds the world of our government's past foolishness... Whereas Saddam wastes his country's money on opulent palaces and mosques... Whereas Saddam is Mao incarnate... Whereas Saddam grinds little Christian babies into hamburger to feed to terrorists... The fact remains that none of these whereases would have amounted to a hill of beans if Bush and his buddies had not sold the war as being needed to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction that threatened the security of our nation. Humanitarianism Run Amok You've explained "time and time again" your belief that rescuing the Iraqi people from Saddam--a fellow citizen that the Iraqis allowed to rule their country--is a worthy humanitarian goal. I agree. I hope the Iraqis have learned an important lesson. Where we disagree is on the mechanism to accomplish that goal. And so did Candidate Bush before he became President Bush. If Bush and company had trumpeted a nation-building war objective instead of offering the false pretense of Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction, how far would he have gotten?   Who would have agreed to his letting Osama bin Laden off the hook, to fight instead over a long list of whereases? Would you? Hmmm? Been There
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:12 AM More bad news from Iraq for our military families: Iraq Violence Surges; 2 More Marines Killed In Action. A suicide bomber steered his car into an Iraqi police patrol south of Baghdad late Thursday night, killing four officers, and three bomb attacks in the capital wounded at least nine people on Friday, Iraqi officials said. The attacks followed two deadly car bombings in the capital on Thursday morning, and extended the recent surge of violence that ended two months of relative calm after the January elections.   The American military on Friday announced the deaths of two American marines. One was killed Wednesday by enemy mortar fire at an American base near Hit, near the Syrian border, military officials said. The other was killed Thursday by small arms fire in Ramadi, west of the capital. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,302 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 716 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Saturday, April 16, 2005 11:14 AM "Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." —George W. Bush, October 7, 2002
Lynn Torkelson	The Iraq War Posted: Saturday, April 16, 2005 7:29 PM look2it, Because you raised the question, let me put in my two cents here by mentioning something positive about President Bush. By his personal example in the White House, he's shown America that he understands - without reservation - that people of color possess every bit as much intelligence, drive, and political ability as do their white counterparts. Coming from a conservative white Republican, that message can't help but make a positive impact on our society. Birch Bark
look2it	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 1:58 AM BB, that is true, something good about Bush after all. BT, great answer to CJ, I read the whole thing.   So true. G'night.
sarge	Around the Kitchen Table Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 8:53 AM Please!! Permit me a moment of utter, and undisguised rage:  WHAT THE LIVING HELL IS GOING ON, HERE?  COLLECTIVE MASS DELUSION, REINFORCED BY A LAPDOG MEDIA TO AN ADMINISTRATION OF KILLERS IS MURDERING THIS COUNTRY.   THE RACE CARD? HUMANITARIAN GOALS?   Let them eat bombs The doubling of child malnutrition in Iraq is baffling Terry Jones Tuesday April 12, 2005 The Guardian   A report to the UN human rights commission in Geneva has concluded that Iraqi children were actually better off under Saddam Hussein than they are now. This, of course, comes as a bitter blow for all those of us who, like George Bush and Tony Blair, honestly believe that children thrive best when we drop bombs on them from a great height, destroy their cities and blow up hospitals, schools and power stations. It now appears that, far from improving the quality of life for Iraqi youngsters, the US-led military assault on Iraq has inexplicably doubled the number of children under five suffering from malnutrition. Under Saddam, about 4% of children under five were going hungry, whereas by the end of last year almost 8% were suffering. These results are even more disheartening for those of us in the Department of Making Things Better for Children in the Middle East By Military Force, since the previous attempts by Britain and America to improve the lot of Iraqi children also proved disappointing. For example, the policy of applying the most draconian sanctions in living memory totally failed to improve conditions. After they were imposed in 1990, the number of children under five who died increased by a factor of six. By 1995 something like half a million Iraqi children were dead as a result of our efforts to help them. A year later, Madeleine Albright, then the US ambassador to the United Nations, tried to put a brave face on it. When a TV interviewer remarked that more children had died in Iraq through sanctions than were killed in Hiroshima, Mrs Albright famously replied: "We think the price is worth it." But clearly George Bush didn't. So he hit on the idea of bombing them instead. And not just bombing, but capturing and torturing their fathers, humiliating their mothers, shooting at them from road blocks - but none of it seems to do any good. Iraqi children simply refuse to be better nourished, healthier and less inclined to die. It is truly baffling. And this is why we at the department are appealing to you - the general public - for ideas. If you can think of any other military techniques that we have so far failed to apply to the children of Iraq, please let us know as a matter of urgency. We assure you that, under our present leadership, there is no limit to the amount of money we are prepared to invest in a military solution to the problems of Iraqi children. In the UK there may now be 3.6 million children living below the poverty line, and 12.9 million in the US, with no prospect of either government finding any cash to change that. But surely this is a price worth paying, if it means that George Bush and Tony Blair can make any amount of money available for bombs, shells and bullets to improve the lives of Iraqi kids. You know it makes sense.   WAKE UP PEOPLE! Maybe you voted for the guy. Get over it and stop trying to find excuses. Nobodys perfect!
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:29 AM The sectarian civil war in Iraq has intensified: Wave of Violence and Kidnapping Engulfs Iraq. A group of Sunni Arab kidnappers threatened to kill several Shiite hostages on Saturday unless all Shiites agreed to evacuate a town south of Baghdad in a stark illustration of rising sectarian tensions here. In the capital and other parts of the country, a wave of suicide bombings and shootings left 19 people dead. The violence on Saturday included a bomb that tore through a crowded restaurant a lunchtime in Baquba, northeast of Baghdad, killing at least 13 Iraqis. The kidnapping took place Friday night, Iraqi officials said, when a group of Sunni Arabs abducted three Shiites in Madaen, 10 miles south of the capital. They warned neighbors that the hostages would be killed unless all Shiites left the town. Some news agencies reported that as many as 60 hostages had been taken, but residents disputed those figures. Iraqi officials said the kidnapping was the latest in a series of retaliatory abductions in the past week by armed Sunni and Shiite groups, who have clashed in the past in the lawless area just south of the capital. The kidnapping on Friday, though, appeared to be the first effort since the invasion to forcibly evacuate a town along sectarian lines. Several Iraqi political figures said Saturday that the kidnappings could be related to rising anger among Sunni Arabs as the new government, dominated by Shiites and Kurds, prepares to take power. "The Iraqi street is boiling with anger," said Meshaan al-Juburi, a Sunni member of Iraq's new national assembly. "There is a sense of desperation that has resulted in violence, and now this is the result. We are on the verge of a bad time." We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,303 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 717 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	List of Bush Virtues Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:43 AM Look2It and Birch Bark, Another thing on the positive side of the ledger for George W. Bush is his personal dedication to physical fitness, as Ralph Nader once pointed out. (I'd like to see matching dedications to mental fitness and personal character.) Been There
Been There	Let Them Eat Bombs Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:47 AM Sarge, It is always interesting to notice how easy it is to say "the price is worth it" for those not paying that price personally. When George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, and the rest of the neocons had the opportunity to put their own skins on the line in Vietnam, they quickly decided "the price is not worth it." I can tell you that I will not stay quiet while that crew and their bought-and-paid-for media mouthpieces drive this country into the dirt. I owe that to my children and grandchildren, and to my forefathers who worked and fought to leave me with a better country than they found. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:49 AM "This has been tough weeks in that country." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 13, 2004
nm420	Around the Kitchen Table Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 4:26 PM Sarge, I don't think we've tried THE bomb yet. I know, it's pulling at straws, but it might work to improve the lives of those children. We certainly can't know until we give it a try, and wouldn't the price be worth the cost? All the depleted uranium we left over there from our last excursion wasn't quite enough. I think if we test out a few of those bunker busters, then we'd start to see some real improvements in child mortality, for generations to come no less. Sorry, it'd be funnier if it wasn't a very real possibility and a very tragic situation. But sometimes I feel like you have to laugh at this crap if you're not going to lose your sanity. Just not too much, or you'll end up losing your humanity. Really, though, the irony would be knee-slapping if we were watching this on TV (oh, wait a second). "Drop a bomb in the name of Love." There could be telethons where $500 would get your name engraved on the shell, and Sally Struthers could walk around interviewing the little ones before taking off in a helicopter as the bombers flew overhead. I think that's a major problem with television. You see so many images, some of which are "true" and others "false", it really does a number on your psyche. After a while, reality and imagery blend together in one big pile of mush, with little sense for what's right or wrong anymore. Why, if I didn't know any better, I might think that was the purpose behind the "television in every home" credo, so that we might all be numbed to the point of not caring about such ugliness when it comes to our attention.
Lynn Torkelson	Rediscovering Ancient Literature Posted: Sunday, April 17, 2005 5:28 PM Technology certainly makes it possible to wreak havoc to a degree that would have dumbfounded the ancients. On the other side of the coin, a fascinating news story today shows some of the potential for modern technology to advance the humanities. The version I read is in the online edition of The Independent: Decoded at last. Decoded at last: the 'classical holy grail' that may rewrite the history of the world Scientists begin to unlock the secrets of papyrus scraps bearing long-lost words by the literary giants of Greece and Rome By David Keys and Nicholas Pyke 17 April 2005 For more than a century, it has caused excitement and frustration in equal measure - a collection of Greek and Roman writings so vast it could redraw the map of classical civilisation. If only it was legible. Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed. In the past four days alone, Oxford's classicists have used it to make a series of astonishing discoveries, including writing by Sophocles, Euripides, Hesiod and other literary giants of the ancient world, lost for millennia. They even believe they are likely to find lost Christian gospels, the originals of which were written around the time of the earliest books of the New Testament. [continues] Chalk one up for techno-geeks! Birch Bark
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 8:56 AM Today's news from Iraq: Kidnappings Denied; 4 U.S. Soldiers and Aid Worker Killed. Iraqi security forces searched this small farming town on Monday after reports that Sunni militants had kidnapped as many as 100 Shiite residents and were threatening to kill them unless the entire Shiite population left town -- a display of sectarian violence brazen even by Iraqi standards. But by late in the day, officials had produced no hostages and there were growing indications the incident had been grossly exaggerated and was perhaps an outgrowth of a tribal dispute or political maneuvering. ... Elsewhere in Iraq, at least 33 people died over the weekend in insurgent violence, including four U.S. soldiers and a 28-year-old American aid worker identified as Marla Ruzicka, of Lakeport, Calif., the founder of a group that was trying to determine the number of civilian casualties in the country. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,304 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 718 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Rediscovering Ancient Literature Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 8:58 AM Birch Bark, Interesting article on decoding the old manuscript fragments. I wonder how much of the text is "figured out" by the computer program and how reliable that portion is. It sure would be handy to have that computer program to work on some old jigsaw puzzles with pieces missing... Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 9:00 AM "I know something about being a government. And you've got a good one." —George W. Bush, Bentonville, AR, Nov. 4, 2002
sarge	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 10:24 AM    "Why should we hear about body bags and deaths," Barbara Bush said on ABC's "Good Morning America" on March 18, 2003. "Oh, I mean, it's not relevant. So why should I waste my beautiful mind on something like that?"
look2it	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Monday, April 18, 2005 11:59 PM sarge, Barbara Bush too? First thing you know they'll take her picture off one dollar bills. G'night.
Cousin Jack	The Iraq War Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:20 AM Been There writes: The fact remains that none of these whereases would have amounted to a hill of beans if Bush and his buddies had not sold the war as being needed to rid Iraq of weapons of mass destruction that threatened the security of our nation. Humanitarianism Run Amok You've explained "time and time again" your belief that rescuing the Iraqi people from Saddam--a fellow citizen that the Iraqis allowed to rule their country--is a worthy humanitarian goal. I agree. I hope the Iraqis have learned an important lesson. Where we disagree is on the mechanism to accomplish that goal. And so did Candidate Bush before he became President Bush. If Bush and company had trumpeted a nation-building war objective instead of offering the false pretense of Iraq's possession of weapons of mass destruction, how far would he have gotten?  We'll never know how far those "wheras's" would have amounted to nor how far President Bush would have gotten. What "mechanism" would you have proposed to "accomplish that goal", BT? 12 more years of "discussions" while 60,000 Iraqi children under 5 years of age died under the sanctions policy? Or perhaps removing the sanctions policy and letting Saddam milk his huge oil reserves to rebuild his WMD?   Of course the real issue is your phrase "false pretenses" which I italicized for a very good reason. This is a quite specific legal phrase as seen at this site: False pretenses is the crime of "obtaining title to the property of another by an intentional (or knowingly) false statement of past or existing facts with intent to defraud the rightful owner Or this legal site: false pretenses n. the crime of knowingly making untrue statements for the purpose of obtaining money or property fraudulently. If you can convince the rest of us that the Bush administration, the Blair administration and Congress "knowingly made untrue statements" (as I've italicized above) rather than been simply mistaken due to poor intelligence, then you might well be eligible for a prosecutorial attorney's job at the International Court in the Hague. I'll put a good word in for you if you want.     As for Osama, I agree with Tom Friedman, take the bounty off his worthless whiskered head. He's long since become irrelevant and whatever faction of Al Qaeda he once financed has become irrelevant too. He's just a spook that anal-retentive Bush haters now claim as their own for domestic policy reasons and those 20 suiciders UBL helped recruit and groom have long since become dried-up bloody smears on NY sidewalks, Pentagon walls and Pennsylavania soil. He's been reduced to making pathetic bush-league (sorry) videos for Al Jazeera that no serious terrorist gives a flying fuck about. I hope we find Osama someday and hold him responsible for his malevolent recruitment program but at this point it won't seriously affect, one way or the other, our progress on the current war on terrorism which now seems to be focused on an Osama wannabe named Abu-Musab al-Zarqawi living in Iraq and currently killing aspiring Iraqi democrats, American servicemen and American servicewomen. Let's focus on the Al Qaeda leader who's doing the real damage now.    CJ
Cousin Jack	Rediscovering Ancient Literature Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:35 AM Birch Bark writes: Now, in a breakthrough described as the classical equivalent of finding the holy grail, Oxford University scientists have employed infra-red technology to open up the hoard, known as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, and with it the prospect that hundreds of lost Greek comedies, tragedies and epic poems will soon be revealed. This is absolutely wonderful news and thank you for bringing attention to it, BB! Combine this with what might be unscrolled at the Villa of the Papyri at Herculaneum and we could have a much better picture of the origins (or non-origins) of Christianity.   Cheers, CJ
Cousin Jack	An All-American April 19th Anti-Totalitarian Antidote Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:08 AM Old Man River * There’s an old man called the Mississippi                                                                                     That’s the old man that I want to be                                                                                               What does he care if the world’s got troubles                                                                          What does he care if the land ain’t free                                                                                     Old Man River that old man river                                                                                              He must know somethin’ but don’t say nothin’                                                                 He just keeps rollin’, he keeps on rollin’ along  He don’t plant taters, he don’t plant cotton                                                                                   And them that’s plant them is soon forgotten                                                                                                                                                                                     But Old Man River he just keeps rollin’ along You and me we sweat and strain                                                                                                   Body all achin’ and wracked with pain                                                                                              Tote that barge and lift that bale  Get a little drunk and you land in jail I get weary and sick of tryin’                                                                                                   I’m tired of livin’ and scared of dyin’                                                                                  But Old Man River he just keeps rollin’ along                                      * Paul Robeson "Showboat" mp3 download
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:02 AM News from Iraq: Iraqi Official Is Assassinated by Gunmen in Baghdad. The official, Maj. Gen. Adnan Qaragholi, was killed just after 11 p.m. when 10 gunmen forced their way into his house in the Doura neighborhood in southern Baghdad and shot him to death, Interior Ministry officials said.   Insurgents try to assassinate the leaders of Iraq's fledgling military and the police almost daily, and many officers have been killed. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,305 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 719 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Ten Years Ago Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:06 AM On April 19, 1995--exactly ten years ago today--terrorist Timothy McVeigh people bombed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people and wounding hundreds more. Under the Clinton administration, McVeigh received the death penalty. In 1996, 1997, and 1998, terrorist Eric Rudolph murdered several people in a series of bombings. Under the Bush administration, Rudolph will receive a prison term. On September 11, 2001, terrorist Osama bin Laden sent 19 suicide bombers to murder over 2,700 people in the World Trade Center in New York. Under the Bush administration, bin Laden has received a free pass. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:09 AM "Ann and I will carry out this equivocal message to the world: Markets must be open." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 2, 2001 (The occasion for this remark by the president was the swearing-in ceremony for Secretary of Agriculture Ann Veneman.)
bada bing	Around the Kitchen Table Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 12:38 PM Ther blowin smoke in Rome now. Last pope was agin fryin murderers and rapers and agin the war on terrorists. No wonder, look wheres he come from. Hope da new one got more sense. See you finns an skwahz up dere in a coupla weeks.
Cousin Jack	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:28 PM Like L2, I enjoy your ongoing list of Presidential malapropisms, Been There. George would probably get a kick out of them as well. Christopher Hitchens wrote a Nation column 5 years ago that attributed Bush's gift for mangling the english language to dyslexia: The term for this failure of mental word-processing is dyslexia, and it can occur in mild and severe forms. I used to have the job of tutoring a dyslexic child, and I know something about the symptoms. So I kicked myself hard when I read the profile of Governor George W. Bush, by my friend and colleague Gail Sheehy, in this month's Vanity Fair. All those jokes and cartoons and websites about his gaffes, bungles and malapropisms? We've been unknowingly teasing the afflicted. The poor guy is obviously dyslexic, and dyslexic to the point of near-illiteracy. He wasn't quite so forgiving to Bush Sr. and Reagan however: The rhetorical and linguistic train wrecks in the speeches of Reagan and Bush Senior were of a different quality, arising variously from hysterical lying, brutish ignorance, senile decay and cultural deprivation. But the problem was chiefly syntactical. The additional humiliations of Dubya derive from utter failures of word recognition. Hitchens supported the American military invasion to topple the Saddam Hussein regime, slightly favored Bush's re-election in a 2004 Nation editorial and still calls him Dubya. For some writers, apparently (are you listening Moots?), "Dubya" is a term of conflicted or resigned affection.   Cheers, CJ
Cousin Jack	Ten Years Ago Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 2:38 PM April 19th-20th has gained a reputation over the past couple of decades as a warped 2 day holiday for Neo-Nazi White Supremicists (hence my Paul Robeson mp3 offering, one of the great vocal classics of the 20th century). It's hard to believe the Oklahoma City bombing happened 10 years ago. By a Gulf War veteran whose mind was warped by extreme right-wing polemics and fundamentalist religious beliefs. Like Eric Rudolph. Like Osama Bin Laden.   CJ
moots	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 3:09 PM  CJ writes For some writers, apparently (are you listening Moots?), "Dubya" is a term of conflicted or resigned affection.   Depends on how you say it, smiling or spitting, which seems to be the more common mode in this outhouse.   moots
look2it	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:18 AM CJ, dyslexia is it? Is that the high-falluting name for what we commoners call Dan Quayle's Disease? mootsie, no spitting at this kitchen table. You're not in the woods here, you know. G'night.
moots	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:29 AM L2,   You sayd no spitting at this kitchen table. Now yore talking!  Enforce that rule!  Tell BT that he's either gotta take that canful  of Copenhagen outta his cheek or he's gotta get off politics.  And no wipin his chin on the table cloth, neither.  Them brown stains don't make for fine eating.   moots
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:59 AM As the new Iraq parliament demanded an apology for mistreatment by American soldiers, the death wave in that country continued yesterday: Violent Wave Continues in Iraq With 3 Car Bombs; 2 U.S. Soldiers Killed. On Tuesday, two suicide bombers detonated their vehicles in separate attacks in Baghdad, killing four Iraqis and two American soldiers. The attacks occurred as several members of Iraq's new National Assembly demanded an apology from American officials in light of accusations that an American soldier had mistreated an assembly member. One suicide bomber struck just after noon at the front gate of an Iraqi Army recruiting station in the Baghdad neighborhood of Adamiya as a group of fresh recruits stood waiting nearby, Interior Ministry officials said. Two Iraqi soldiers and two recruits were killed, and 38 people were wounded. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,306 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 720 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:00 AM Moots, Never any spitting from me either! Always a straightforward statement of facts (which might be uncomfortable for some). Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 9:03 AM "If you don't have any ambitions, the minimum-wage job isn't going to get you to where you want to get, for example. In other words, what is your ambitions? And oh, by the way, if that is your ambition, here's what it's going to take to achieve it." —George W. Bush, Little Rock, AR, Aug. 29, 2002 (from a speech by the president to students)
moots	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 11:52 AM BT sez, Your Honor, Never any spitting from me either! Always a straightforward statement of facts (which might be uncomfortable for some). Jegde Moots, Take that chaw outta yore face soz you can practice puttin yore tongue in yore cheek afore you try that line on me again!  An wipe that snoose offa yore chin.   I hereby find you guilty of contempt of this here court. Ninety days  pickin cans from the side ov the roads and  room an board in the crossbar hotel..  Hand me that fresh can of Copenhagen, bailiff.  He won't be needin it.   Next case!
bada bing	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:45 PM Well aint that just super, the new pope is a peacenik kraut. Just what the world needs a kraut blabbing about peace.
look2it	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:28 AM mootsie, you're too modest, you don't take a back seat to BT or any other man in the spitting department. Women don't spit, of course. I see Florida opened the jails to anyone ready to hitch to the UP. Takes a couple of weeks to get here I guess. Take 41 north. G'night.
moots	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:33 AM L2,   You're classic.  You added a good laugh to a sunny morning.  A good start.  Thanks.  I wish there were more posters like you.   moots
moots	No chewin llowd Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:42 AM Bada,   When you start seein "Been There" spray painted on the rocks by the highway  and a crotchetty old buck in an orange suit pickin roadside trash, you'll know yore almost to the Copper Country.  Don't bother askin him for a chew, coz he won't have none.  Don't let him have none of yores neither - he's takin the cure.   Jedge Moots
moots	No chewin llowd Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 8:47 AM BT,   Someday you'll thank me for the fresh air an exercise an  from savin you from a life a crime.  See where chewin can get you?   http://www.cnn.com/2005/SHOWBIZ/books/04/21/people.janefonda.ap/index.html   Jedge Moots
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:57 AM In Iraq yesterday, more violence and more political sparring were in evidence: Iraq Chief Says a Mass Killing, Under Dispute, Did Take Place. In an interview on Wednesday evening, an aide to Mr. Talabani elaborated on the president's comments about the kidnapping, saying the government had names and pictures of the victims and names of the killers. "There were hostages who were killed and thrown into the Tigris, and we found 50 dead bodies," the aide said. He said details would be released soon. In the continuing violence in Baghdad, two Iraqis, one of them a child, died after insurgents tried to attack an American military convoy in the restive western Baghdad neighborhood of Amiriya with a car bomb, according to Iraqi officials. Two car bombs exploded in the Dora neighborhood of Baghdad, one aimed at a police car rushing to the scene of the other car bombing, according to an Interior Ministry official. Together, the bombs destroyed 15 police vehicles and wounded three people, he said. Before the attempt on Dr. Allawi's life, a Health Ministry official said a total of 6 Iraqis were killed and 20 wounded by terrorist activities in Baghdad on Wednesday. Three civilians were also killed in the northern city of Mosul, he said. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,307 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 721 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	No chewin llowd Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:03 AM Moots, Okay, I see you're on to me. Time was when we didn't have to look all over for spitoons to keep things neat. You wouldn't know where I could pick up a couple of those useful containers, would you? Called Wal-Mart, but they said no. Been There
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:10 AM I'm going to let K-Now posters in on some information I received from a private source (can't reveal the name, so you'll have to judge its credibility accordingly). It seems that Condi Rice personally loathes John Bolton (as does everyone who has ever had the misfortune to work with him) and cannot abide the notion of his staying on in her State Department. As it happens, though, Bolton has powerful conservatives on his side--Dick Cheney, for example--who love Bolton's politics and admire his "management style." So poor Condi Rice can't just boot the guy, she needs to find a promotion for him to make him someone else's problem. Ergo, her selling President Bush on Bolton being just the perfect guy to represent our country at the U.N. Bush and Rice had hoped for a quick (and cursory) approval of Bolton's appointment, and they were dumbfounded when republican senator George Voinovich had an attack of conscience. The president was (I'm told) livid when he heard the news, and Cheney almost exploded. Senator Voinovich's staff is bracing for heavy retaliation. Remember: Colin Powell flatly refused to endorse Bolton for the U.N. post, and Bolton had worked for Powell. Carl Ford, who also worked in the State Department at the same time as Bolton, went so far as to testify publicly against Bolton's nomination, calling him a "serial abuser." And these are not democrats and liberals out to hurt the president, but staunch republicans who want to save our nation from embarrassment. Other republicans have also been blunt in their assessments of Bolton: White House Fends Off Criticism of Nominee. On Monday, Lawrence Wilkerson, who was Secretary of State Colin Powell's chief of staff, issued a withering assessment. "Do I think John Bolton would make a good ambassador to the United Nations? Absolutely not," Mr. Wilkerson told The New York Times. "He is incapable of listening to people and taking into account their views." "He would be an abysmal ambassador." Mr. Ford's testimony is said by committee staff members to have brought a torrent of new allegations. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told her senior staff on Monday that she was disappointed with the emerging allegations, and did not want any more negative information on Mr. Bolton coming from the department, [italics mine] The Washington Post reported. Mr. McClellan, the spokesman, insisted that the White House stood resolutely behind Mr. Bolton and urged his quick confirmation. "We need to get John Bolton to the United Nations because this is an important position," he said today. "We need to get him there sooner rather than later." He said Mr. Bolton had been "an effective manager, a strong diplomat who has gotten things done." McClellan did not, however, offer a specific list of Bolton's accomplishments. Isn't politics fun! Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:13 AM "Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."   —Dick Cheney, August 26, 2002
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 10:16 AM "But the true strength of America is found in the hearts and souls of people like Travis, people who are willing to love their neighbor, just like they would like to love themselves." —George W. Bush, Springfield, MO, Feb. 9, 2004
moots	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Thursday, April 21, 2005 12:29 PM Now lemme get this straight, J. Bolton is headstrong, overbearing, blunt spoken and undiplomatic.  Mebbe not the greatest qualifications for a diplomat, but it's funny to hear that kind of criticism in this joint.   JM
look2it	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:10 AM BT, didn't you say you sell antiques in Chassell? Too cheap to buy spittoons from your own stock? mootsie, you should give BT the business. When you're in the market for a spittoon. G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:28 AM The bad news from Iraq just keeps coming: U.S. Soldier Killed; Car Bomb Attack at Baghdad Mosque Kills at Least 9. In northern Iraq early today, an American soldier with the First Corps Support Command was killed and another was wounded, the military said, when a roadside bomb exploded near their vehicle north of Tall Afar, about 90 miles east of the border with Syria. Shiite mosques have been a frequent target of attacks by Sunni-led insurgents. Yesterday was no picnic either: Gunmen execute Baghdad crash survivor. An internet video shows gunmen helping a man purported to be the lone survivor of a helicopter shot down near Baghdad to his feet, then spraying him with bullets. The civilian helicopter was shot down Thursday north of the Iraqi capital. Eleven foreigners working in the country died, including three Bulgarians, six Americans and two Fijians. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,308 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 722 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Stealing from Our Children and Grandchildren Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:34 AM Fed Chairman Alan Greenspan reiterated the obvious yesterday to congress: Greenspan Warns That Deficits Are Unsustainable. Alan Greenspan, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, warned Congress today that the federal budget is on an "unsustainable path" as a result of rising demands on Social Security and Medicare and government spending on new programs. Unless Congress makes major changes in how it makes the budget, he said, the country will run deficits large enough to cause the economy "to stagnate or worse."    In 2004, the federal budget ran a deficit equal to about 3.5 percent of the nation's gross domestic product, Mr. Greenspan said, while the size of federal debt relative to G.D.P. has "risen noticeably" since bottoming out in 2001. No kidding! Compare the fiscal situation now with that five years ago. The difference is a perfect measure of the effect of the irresponsible "me generation" Bush administration. Been There
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:38 AM Moots, To my mind, a man of real character always treats those who work for him with appreciation and understanding, complimenting them publicly for work well done and correcting them privately (and kindly) when needed. It's vital to encourage those folks to speak up to you, as that's the only way you'll ever stay in touch with the truth. As do all real men, you, I suspect, share those opinions with me. No doubt you've done your best to live as a man of character, as have I. To those in positions of similar rank to our own, we owe our honest, forthright, opinons, presented respectfully. We'll listen carefully, with an open mind, to the reasons they offer when they differ with us. To those in positions above us, we owe our constant skepticism. Compliments are reserved for truly special achievements--because excellent work should be expected from those people. When we disagree with our leaders, character demands that we speak our minds as forcefully as possible. If those leaders too have real character, they accept our words with the same care and thoughtfulness as we grant to those who work directly with us and for us. If they don't, we know they lack the character for the positions they hold. Is John Bolton a man of character? Carl Ford, former Army officer and State Department colleague (and staunch republican), had this description of John Bolton: "a quintessential kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy." He bullies those below him and butters up his superiors. In other words, he's a man of no character whatsoever. Bolton does, however, perfectly embody the "me generation" philosophy propounded by George W. Bush and his entire administration. Perhaps that is why the president considers Bolton the right man to represent our nation before the world. Been There
Been There	Bobbing Along Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:41 AM Look2It, I didn't know you liked to fish! I'm a little surprised you have the patience for it. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:42 AM "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August." —Andrew Card, September 7, 2002
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 10:44 AM "King Abdullah of Jordan, the King of Morocco, I mean, there's a series of places - Qatar, Oman - I mean, places that are developing - Bahrain - they're all developing the habits of free societies." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Jan. 29, 2004
moots	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 11:51 AM BT,   You seem to regard yourself as an excellent judge of character, an area that I still have difficulty with.  Perhaps you could explain how you know that that JB is "a quintessential kiss-up, kick-down sort of guy", but that all those swift boat vets were wrong about JK?  How can you be sure?   moots
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:18 PM Moots, The reports about John Bolton's actions come from people of all political persuasions, conservatives as well as liberals, republicans as well as democrats. My assessment of the import of those actions is based on my own standards for judging character, some of which I've spelled out on these boards. If you think I'm wrong on either the facts or on my standards, just tell me why you think so. I'd be happy to hear you out. Been There
moots	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:42 PM BT,   You may be right about Bolton, and the Senate will have to make that judgment, influenced as always, by politics.   Regarding JK, are you suggesting that the swift boat vets who denounced JK were all republicans and that their judgment of his character was totally politically motivated?   moots
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 12:57 PM Moots,   I don't know enough about all the swift boat vets who denounced Kerry to make that assessment. (Kerry lost the election.)   Been There
moots	Thugs, Slugs, Leaky Plugs and Other Bricks Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 3:09 PM BT,   Given your admission.... I don't know enough about all the swift boat vets who denounced Kerry to make that assessment. (Kerry lost the election.)   Perhaps there are things about Bolton that you do not know that would cause you to temper your judgment of him.  If you were aware of your own faults as keenly as you have frequently avowed, I think you would refrain from throwing bricks like this: In other words, he's a man of no character whatsoever.   Bolton, I think, is dead meat.  Too bad, I think the UN deserves someone like him.   moots
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, Leaky Plugs and Other Bricks Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:24 PM Moots, Why would my not having information about the swift boat captains who opposed Kerry have anything to do with my assessment of John Bolton? If you see any logical connection between the two, please spell it out. When I have insufficient information about something, I make no judgment about it. Most matters fall into that category: I freely make that "admission" (and I don't raise such matters as issues). If I consider it important to make a judgment about something, I look for the information I need to make the judgment. About Bolton, I'm confident I've more than enough information to judge the man. I even took the time to watch reruns on C-SPAN of the testimony, and found Carl Ford completely believable.   However, if you have information I've missed that supports your positive judgment of Bolton, I'd be more than happy to take a look at it and factor it into my thinking. Fair enough? On the matter you raised, I saw none of the swift boat vets' commercials last year and don't recall now (if I ever knew) what they claimed Kerry did wrong. I do recall reading that those commercials were done by people with close ties to Bush and Rove.   If you have information, though, that the commercials were really done by a bi-partisan group with no political ax to grind, I'd be happy to take a look at that too. Fair enough?   But (speaking of dead meat) it seems to me, Moots, that Kerry's kind of a dead issue now. Been There
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 5:47 PM Moots, If I've misjudged Bolton, either I've got the facts wrong or my standards are wrong. I'm more than willing to consider information that contradicts either. If I keep my judgment private, I reduce the chances of learning when I'm wrong. You make judgments too. If you do so differently than I, what is your approach? Been There
look2it	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Friday, April 22, 2005 11:28 PM mootsie, yep, yore a spitter awright, leastways when BT don agree whichya. BT, I kin tell Boltons no good jes by lookin at dem long white nose hairs a hisn, but I spose mootsie likes him jes cause you don. Dis heer da way wese talkin dese days, mootsie? Da binger'll fit rat inn. G'night all.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:38 AM Almost three months since the elections in Iraq, the new government there is still not functional: Kurds' Leaders Said to Attempt to Block Shiite. Some leading Kurdish political figures are trying to stall the formation of a new Iraqi government in an effort to force out Ibrahim al-Jaafari, the Shiite chosen two weeks ago as prime minister, Iraqi and Western officials said. Such an effort could further delay forming a government at a sensitive time. The past week has seen a sharp increase in insurgent violence, including the downing Thursday of a commercial helicopter that left 11 people dead. One of the victims was apparently executed by the attackers.    American officials say the continuing failure to form a new government - almost three months after elections - could be contributing to the resurgent violence. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,309 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 723 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:40 AM Sen. George V. Voinovich is much more popular in Ohio than is George W. Bush. The senator won reelection last year by a 2-to-1 margin while Bush almost lost Ohio and, with it, the presidency. In fact, without Voinovich's support, Bush most likely would not be president today. Nevertheless, by following his conscience instead of goose-stepping obediently to the Leader's orders, Voinovich has exposed himself to the republican attack dogs: Cheney Vows to 'Rip His Throat Out.' Yesterday, the group Move America Forward said it is buying radio spots in Ohio -- it did not say how many or in which markets -- to denounce Voinovich's action. In the spots, according to the group's release, a wife chatting with her husband reports indignantly that Voinovich missed most of the committee debate on Bolton, "but then shows up at the last minute and stabs the president and Republicans right in the back." As Dick Cheney said so succinctly, "There is no room for conscience in the Republican Party." Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:44 AM "Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."   —George W. Bush, September 12, 2002
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Saturday, April 23, 2005 9:46 AM "And if you're interested in the quality of education and you're paying attention to what you hear at Laclede, why don't you volunteer? Why don't you mentor a child how to read?" —George W. Bush, St. Louis, Mo., Jan. 5, 2004
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2005 9:57 AM It's been another bad weekend in Iraq: Bombings Near Iraq Police Academy Kill 6; Bombings Kill 3 U.S. Soldiers. In the Baghdad area, insurgents attacked several U.S. military convoys. In one, a roadside bomb hit a convoy in the east, causing casualties, the American military said, without providing details. Iraqi police said two American soldiers were killed in the attack and two Iraqi civilians wounded. Also Sunday, the military announced another casualty from a day earlier. An American sailor died Saturday when the Marine convoy he was traveling with was hit by a roadside bomb in Fallujah, 40 miles west of Baghdad, the U.S. military said. Sailors sometimes take part in such operations in support roles such as medics. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,310 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 724 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Thugs, Slugs, and Leaky Plugs Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:01 AM During this pause in the Bolton confirmation hearings, senators are receiving more and more documents detailing the tremendous pressure applied to intelligence analysts to force them to okay neocon political statements not borne out by the facts: Released E-Mail Exchanges Reveal More Bolton Battles. The e-mail messages also make clear that Mr. Westermann and others within the State Department's bureau of intelligence and research, known as I.N.R., were not the only intelligence officials to resist Mr. Bolton's request, and that objections also came from the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and others. So far the people in Ohio appear to be laughing off the republican attack dogs' efforts to hurt Sen. George V. Voinovich. Here is a typical reaction from the Cincinnati Enquirer: A 'maverick' move in Senate. Two years ago, for example, budget hawk Voinovich forced the Bush administration to reduce its tax-cut plan by half. His willingness to buck the White House on spending plans - and do it in no uncertain terms - has been refreshing to watch. So his move this week to postpone a Senate Foreign Relations Committee vote on President Bush's nomination of John Bolton as United Nations ambassador shouldn't surprise anyone, much less produce accusations that Voinovich is a "traitor" - as one pro-Bolton ad put it. It's in the nature of Voinovich's cautious, close-to-the-vest Ohio conservatism to slow down and think this one over a bit. Taking more time is exactly what Bush and Cheney didn't want for this nomination: Too many facts about Bolton (and the whole Bush-Cheney operation) are now seeing the light of day. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:05 AM "The entire world knows beyond dispute that Saddam Hussein holds weapons of mass destruction in large quantities." —Dick Cheney, September 23, 2002 [This marketing statement for the impending attack on Iraq should fit even the most lenient definition of bearing false witness, right Moots?]
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Sunday, April 24, 2005 10:06 AM "These people don't have tanks. They don't have ships. They hide in caves. They send suiciders out." —George W. Bush, Portsmouth, N.H., Nov. 1, 2002
moots	On judging and mumbling Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:33 AM BT,   Your question You make judgments too. If you do so differently than I, what is your approach? I'm as big a hypocrite as the next guy, which is why the words of Jesus continually challenge me "Judge not, lest you be judged."   I don't think it is a moot point to distinguish between how a person acts and how they would like to act.  We tend to judge others on their actions, but ourselves on how we think we would like to be.  This is inherently a double standard.   For that reason, prudence would dictate that we limit our judgments to a person's actions, but withhold final judgment on their character.   L2,   That's how I talk with my friends.  I grew up here in the Copper Country and on a gut level still associate proper grammer and distinct pronunciation with general sissification.  In general I'm a mumbler who likes to take shortcuts with words whenever possible.   moots
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:45 AM As the not-so-new Iraq government dithers, blood spatters the walls: 21 Iraqis Killed in Attacks in Tikrit and Baghdad. Twin car bombs killed six Iraqi police officers and injured at least 30 at a police academy in Tikrit today. In Baghdad, 15 people were killed and at least 57 were hurt in two bomb blasts near a Shiite mosque, as insurgents continued their campaign of violence against Iraqis. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,311 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 725 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:47 AM "Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." —George W. Bush, October 7, 2002
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:49 AM "There's an old saying in Tennessee—I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee—that says, fool me once, shame on—shame on you. Fool me—you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
Cousin Jack	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:49 PM I came across a well-thought out historical piece on American conservatism called Crisis of Faith by Andrew Sullivan at TNR today, in keeping with many of the domestic policy posts I've made since last fall's election, which argues that conservatives of faith are currently driving a wedge between themselves and conservatives of doubt in the republican party. A growing GOP schizophrenia that the democratic party should be able to capitalize at the grass roots organizing level on if they paid more respect to conservative philosophy and less to special interest groups. In drawing a current distinction between the two wings of conservative thought increasingly at odds within the Republican party, Sullivan notes that: [Conservatives of doubt] believe that the purported choice between moral absolutism and complete relativism, between God and moral anarchy, is a phony one. Their alternative is a skeptical, careful, prudential approach to all moral questions--and suspicion of anyone claiming to hold the absolute truth. Since such an approach rarely provides a simple answer persuasive to everyone within a democratic society, we live with moral and cultural pluralism. For conservatives of faith however, such pluralism can allow error to flourish--and immorality to become government policy--and therefore must be limited. Conservatives of doubt do not see pluralism as a problem, but rather as an unavoidable fact of modernity, an invitation to lives that are more challenging and autonomous than in more traditional societies. Even when conservatives of doubt disagree with others' moral convictions, they recognize that, in a free, pluralist society, those other views deserve a hearing. What are the implications of this? Doubt, in other words, means restraint. And restraint of government is the indispensable foundation of human freedom. The modern liberal European state was founded on such doubt. (my bold type)  In the seventeenth century, men like Thomas Hobbes and John Locke looked at the consequences of various faiths battling for control of the moralizing state--and they balked. They saw civil war, religious extremism, torture, burnings at the stake, police states, and the Inquisition. And what did these first "liberals" do? They made a fundamental break with ancient and medieval political thought by insisting that government retreat from such areas--that it leave the definition of the good life to private citizens, to churches uncontaminated by government, or to universities that would seek and discuss competing views of the truth. This is in the same decentralist grain as most of those arguments I've excerpted from the early 1980's New Left political journal Democracy in the "Revitalizing Grass Roots Democracy" thread I started last January.   One final quote from Crisis of Faith before closing: As the fusion of religious fundamentalism with politics has destroyed Muslim society and politics, so, these conservatives fear, it threatens Western freedom as well--in subtler, milder, Christian forms. Conservatives of doubt are not necessarily atheists or amoralists. Many are devout Christians who embrace a strong separation of church and state--for the sake of religion as much as politics. Others may be Oakeshottian skeptics, or Randian individualists, or Burkean pragmatists, or libertarian idealists. But they all agree that the only solution to deep social disagreement is not a forced supremacy of a majority or minority, but an attempt to keep government as neutral as possible, power as close to people as possible, and as much economic power in the hands of the private sector as possible. It's a longer piece than your usual op-ed, but well worth reading to get a firm grasp on the larger context of his argument. Thank you Andrew Sullivan.   CJ
Cousin Jack	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:01 PM Permit me to edit this Yoda-like sentence: A growing GOP schizophrenia that the democratic party should be able to capitalize at the grass roots organizing level on if they paid more respect to conservative philosophy and less to special interest groups. Lest its presidential-like dyslexic syntax inspires Been There to inaugurate a Cousin Jack Thought of the Day thread: A growing GOP schizophrenia that the democratic party should be able to capitalize on at the grass roots organizing level if they paid more respect to conservative philosophy and less to special interest groups. Cheers, CJ
Cousin Jack	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 10:06 PM PS: Sheesh...and "Democrats", you "Listen Up" too eh!   G'Night, CJ
look2it	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Monday, April 25, 2005 11:58 PM CJ, where can I join the Demcorats? Got to start gnawing away at Bush's aknels. G'night.
Been There	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:44 AM Cousin Jack, As a card-carrying member of the lunatic middle-of-the-road fringe, I'd certainly like to see the formation of a large centrist political consensus in our country. The coalition wouldn't have to carry a party label, so long as thoughtful people from all parties joined together when necessary to defeat extremists from either side. It will be interesting to see if a moderate coalition develops to stop the removal of the filibuster in the Senate. The 3/5 majority needed for cloture now is already considerably weaker than the 2/3 majority required for many, many years. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:46 AM "If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world." —Ari Fleischer, December 2, 2002
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 10:48 AM Our greatest strength - well, let me - gas prices are coming down, which, by the way, is positive for the American consumer, American people. —George W. Bush, Santa Clara, California, May 2, 2003
nm420	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 4:31 PM Alas, I still remain skeptical in the ability of the Democratic party to actually capitalize on this split. It still seems to me that Nader got it right back in 2000, when he labeled both parties under the Republicrat ticket. I see there is a lot grassroots activity going on in the Democractic party right now, yet it will take a while for this effort to trickle up to the big dogs in Washington. I think part of the problem is that there is hardly a uniform platform upon which either the Democrats or Republicans stand. They both seem to be out for increasing the girth of their pocketbooks and will generally sell their vote to the highest bidder. Any "reforms" that get enacted are too watered down to have an effect or end up making things worse. It would be nice if political parties could be abolished, though of course this would be too cumbersome to implement. But really, what's the matter with voting on the merits of a candidate rather than relying on the backing of an organization whose views are all too often imprecise or even contradictory? Knowing that a politician is Democrat or Republican gives me rather little knowledge about the person's views. Knowing that Senator X supports issues A and B and actually has a history of consistently supporting such issues is relevant information. It seems the best we can even hope for is a proportionate electoral scheme that would allow for more than two parties to ever gain power, which would still be immensely better than the way things are currently run.
look2it	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 12:11 AM nm, maybe both parties have crooks, but not to the same degree. The guys in power now hardly even try to hide it. G'night.
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:50 AM "We know for a fact that there are weapons of mass destruction there." —Ari Fleischer, January 9, 2003
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 7:51 AM But even more efficient, however, is the transference of heat and cool as a result of circulating water below the -- it's called thermal heating and cooling -- okay? —George W. Bush, Crawford, Texas, Aug. 25. 2001
nm420	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 10:14 AM l2, certainly, but this new brand of Republican seems to be more the exception than the norm. This neoconservative group, or whatever other label one chooses, share hardly anything in common with the more traditional Republican, who in turn shares relatively little with the "ideal" Republican. It seems to me that most of the Republicans are not quite as extreme (they do at least try to keep their shady dealings under the covers) as the leaders now, but they have little choice but to follow as we are stuck in this partisan mode of thinking. If you're a Republican, then you had better do whatever your Republican president says or else you're nothing more than a traitor, as the line of thought goes anyhow. But really, a crook's a crook, no matter how they choose to present themselves. While I'd probably feel marginally safer with the regular brand of crooks in power, I don't see how it would make much difference in the long run. The whole of American history has been leading up to this point (a tautology, I know) when a new Hero would step in and take things to the next level. If it didn't happen in 2000, it would have happened last year, or in 2008, or soon afterwards. It really could have been either the elephants or the donkeys, as they're both asses. What I'm really interested in is whether or not we can turn things around, or if this new turn of events will take us down a path that is next to impossible to backtrack on. And I'm not really sure that the Democrats are going to be at the crux of this question.
moots	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 11:35 AM nm420,   Not much time to chat, but would like to say that you sound like someone who cares.  Disillusionment is not bad if all you lose is illusions.    moots
Cousin Jack	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 2:07 PM L2--Some sunny southern hemispheric day you may be able to join the Demco Rat party in such Australian cities as Perth, Melbourne, Canberra, Brisbane or Sydney (where I hope to be relocating in the not too distant future). Our party mascot will be the Duck-Billed (Beaver-Tailed) Platypus, so if ankle-gnawing is your preferred form of political agitation you'll feel right at home. The Demco Rat Platypii may occasionally lay an egg, but no one will ever confuse us for a braying elephantine ass.   G'Day, CJ
nm420	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 8:50 AM moots, there's relatively little that I don't care about. I hope I'ver never put off the air that I don't care in any of my previous posts, as that's far from the truth. I do have a somewhat dry and sarcastic wit, which may seem a little cynical as you've noted before, but I still have about as a cheery an outlook as can be mustered up. I don't know, maybe I'm out of the loop, but does anyone have any good evidence to suggest that the Democrats will actually learn something from the last few years? I don't doubt that they could take the presidency the next round up (though I don't doubt they could lose it either), but it doesn't really seem like the leadership is making any bold break away from their "politics as usual" bit. I feel that a lot of the energy going into "rebuilding" the Democratic party will get some somewhat progressive candidates into office at the local or regional levels, but I don't see this trickling up to the national level. Howard Dean, while slightly more progressive than most Dems, is still much like the old brand of crooks, and will probably only become more like them the more time he spends in Washington. It seems like that's part of the problem right there. One might have some pretty ingenius ideas on how to change things before getting elected, and even have popular support behind them, but when you get into that city built out of a swamp, it's a whole new rulebook. The opinions of constitutents don't seem to be able to cross over into that realm, meaning that any good ideals must be severely compromised to the point where "moral values" coming from our representative's lips is laughable only out of the sheer irony. Maybe I'm just too impatient, and the Democrats just need more time. But, regardless, I will be very hesitant about ever voting for a Democrat at the federal level for a long time.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:13 PM Both good news and bad news from Iraq today: Iraq's Assembly Overwhelmingly Approves New Government. The assembly chamber burst into wild applause after a show of hands revealed that 180 of 185 legislators in attendance had voted in favor, with almost a third absent. A traditional Islamic chant of praise "God's blessings be on Muhammad and on his family" went up soon afterward.   But the divisions that delayed the government's formation for so long became apparent almost immediately after the vote. The leader of the Shiite political alliance that dominates the assembly and the cabinet, Abdul Aziz al Hakim, delivered a warlike speech that hinted at purges to come in the government's security forces. ... The violence continued today, as a high-ranking police official and a government official were shot to death by gunmen while driving to work in Baghdad. On Wednesday, a member of the national assembly was assassinated in her Baghdad home, in a reminder that members of Iraq's new government are highly vulnerable. The Bush administration contends that the lack of an Iraqi government has fueled the insurgency over the past three months. If so, we can expect relative calm to spread over the country now, leading to rapid reductions in our forces deployed there. (Knock on wood.) We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,314 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 728 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:15 PM "Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." —George W. Bush, State of the Union address, January 28, 2003
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Thursday, April 28, 2005 5:17 PM "I suspect that had my dad not been president, he'd be asking the same questions: How'd your meeting go with so-and-so? … How did you feel when you stood up in front of the people for the State of the Union Address—state of the budget address, whatever you call it." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., March 9, 2001
look2it	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:05 AM CJ, you locating down under temporarily or for a long time? You think things are better there? Don't forget your buddies from the UP, mate! G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:43 AM The insurgents in Iraq do not seem to have lost focus after the long-delayed formation of a new government there: 23 Iraqis Are Killed in Attacks on Security Forces in Baghdad. At least 23 people, including civilians and Iraqi forces, were killed and up to 93 people were wounded today in nine car bombs, just one day after the first fully and freely elected government in Iraq's history was approved. Three car bombs exploded in the Al-Madain, killing nine people; two car bombs were detonated in the Al-Ghadeer area of Baghdad, killing one, and in Al-Adhamiya neighborhood 13 people were killed in four car bombs, according to the Interior Ministry. Of the dead, seven were civilians and the rest of the casualties were Iraqi forces, the ministry said. The nine bombings suggested that fighters in Iraq were keeping up the momentum of an undiminished insurgency. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,315 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 729 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:44 AM "Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent." —George W. Bush, State of the Union address, January 28, 2003
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:46 AM "There's a lot of gas reserves around the world. Gas can only be transported by ship, though, when you liquefy it, when you put it in solid form." —George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., April 28, 2005
Cousin Jack	Fundamentalism is Splitting the GOP (Listen Up, Demcorats) Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 6:58 PM Only true love can pull me down under, L2. In the event she does, I could never forget the Keweenaw nor those friends I've made there over the years all of whom I'll retain summer visitation rights with for as long as I do live.   , CJ
look2it	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Friday, April 29, 2005 11:52 PM BT, how did you get that last Bush howler onto the web so fast? He said it on Thursday? CJ, can't beat true love! G'night.
Been There	The Iraq War Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:40 AM The war Bush started to protect us from Iraq's imaginary weapons of mass destruction continues unabated: Wave of Attacks in Iraq Kill 40 and Wound 100; 4 More U.S. Soldiers Slaughtered. The attacks, a direct challenge to the new Shiite-dominated government that was formed Thursday, were aimed at Iraqi police officers and national guardsmen at their bases and traveling in convoys in northern and southern Baghdad and in Madaen, 15 miles southeast of the capital. At least 23 Iraqi policemen and troops were killed. Some reports put the total death toll at as many as 50 people. Later in the day, other car bomb attacks struck Diyarah, 20 miles south of Baghdad, killing two American soldiers, and near Taji, just north of Baghdad, where a bomber killed one American soldier and wounded two others. One American soldier was also killed and four were wounded by a homemade bomb Thursday night near Hawija, 150 miles north of Baghdad. We all evaluate facts in the light of their context and the principles we deem important. From my perspective, the following facts underscore some important truths: 1,316 days have now passed since since September 17, 2001, when President Bush pledged to get Osama bin Laden "dead or alive." 730 days have now passed since May 1, 2003, when President Bush made his Iraq "mission accomplished" speech. Been There
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:42 AM Look2It, I heard Bush make that statement at his televised press conference on Thursday evening, so I pulled it from the transcript published on the Web Friday morning. I suppose people all over the country chuckled and rolled their eyes when they heard it. Been There
Been There	False Pretenses Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:44 AM "We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more." —Colin Powell, February 5, 2003
Been There	Presidential Thought for the Day Posted: Saturday, April 30, 2005 8:45 AM "The trial lawyers are very politically powerful, but here in Texas we took them on and got some good medical—medical malpractice. I firmly believe the death tax is good for people from all walks of life all throughout our society." —George W. Bush, Waco, Texas, Aug. 13, 2002
Cousin Jack	Cry Me A Two-Hearted River Posted: Sunday, May 01, 2005 12:14 AM