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Lynn Torkelson	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Monday, January 30, 2006 1:30 AM Last week I reported on my investigation of the 7.5 acres of lakefront assessed at only $100. Not wanting to jump to conclusions about it, I looked for a logical explanation -- and found one. Although I did not get all the details correct at first, posters here have provided more information about what actually happened, and I think now we all have a better picture of the facts concerning that parcel. Looking into the information provided by JRussell and downrighthonest forced me to learn things I'd never been acquainted with before, and I've been relating my experiences here as I've gone along. The whole exercise piqued my interest in the basic processes used to assess and tax property. Instead of continuing to focus on this one situation, I agree with JRussell that it's more important to step back and look at the bigger picture. When I met with John Botto last Thursday, most of the time we spent together consisted of his giving patient answers to my questions (when he was not fielding phone calls). I'm going to try to explain what I learned. As always, I encourage posters to identify any inaccuracies that creep into my report. I'm a complete beginner at this, but I think many are in the same position as I. Perhaps we can learn this stuff together.     Strictly My Opinion After peppering John Botto with countless questions and reading the 14-point review I grabbed while Mr. Botto was on the phone, I came to the conclusion that Torch Lake Township sorely needs a complete reassessment. However, Mr. Botto explained -- often using his calculator to illustrate his points -- what a heavy financial burden a complete reassessment places on the township. That's a big stumbling block.     A Costly Proposition A very small part of the property taxes collected by our township actually comes back to the township government. Some fees defray the costs of specific services such as garbage collection and fire protection, but the Township Tax portion of our tax bills amounts to only a small part of the total. On my family's 2004 tax statement, for example, only about 4.25% of what we paid went for the Township Tax. That means that the township will realize only a small portion of any additional tax revenue generated by a complete reassessment. Yet the township is required to bear the entire cost. The numbers John Botto showed me on his calculator indicated that a complete reassessment could cost as much as the township receives from the Township Tax for an entire year.     Our Place In Houghton County Our last complete reassessment was done in 1976, and was done county-wide. (I don't know how it was paid for.) People I talked with at the courthouse told me that all townships in the county have some assessment problems today, but that our township has the most by far. It had seemed to me -- because the county and state both receive a much larger portion of the revenues collected than does the township -- that the county and state would be keenly interested in making sure that a reassessment takes place (maybe to the point of helping pay for it). However, when I questioned Mr. Botto about that, he explained that the county and state have other tools to get the money they have coming from the township. If our township's assessments add up to too low a total, an equalization factor is applied that raises the property taxes of everyone in the township by the same proportion. In fact, that's what "equalization" is all about. Any assessment inequities that exist within the township are simply magnified when that is done.     Assessments Must Be Objective I mentioned in my report last week that I had looked over the card used as the basis for assessing my family's parcel. It contained very little information -- and some of the information on it was wrong. Mr. Botto explained that the missing information is absolutely required to make an objective assessment. It seems logical to think that when a person buys a home, the fair market value for that home is just what the buyer was willing to pay. Mr. Botto disabused me of that notion, and I see that he is correct. People make individual buying decisions for all kinds of reasons, some of them subjective, and a single individual does not define a market. A buyer might pay more than the fair market value for a parcel that he really wants when the seller is reluctant to part with it. Another buyer might pay less than the fair market value because the seller has been transferred out of state and is eager to move quickly. In fact, if the selling price were all that mattered, my neighbor and I could agree to swap homes, selling each to the other for $15,000 apiece. So clearly, the actual selling price -- while a useful piece of information -- cannot be used to establish a parcel's fair market value. In fact, by law, it cannot be used that way. The assessor's responsibility is to establish the fair market value for each home on an objective basis every year. The information on the property card is essential to making that determination. Property maps that establish land values for different areas are also essential. Once the fair market value for a property has been determined objectively, the State Equalized Value (SEV) for the property equals exactly one-half of it. Assessing property requires a substantial amount of work. Yes, JRussell, I completely agree with your January 27 statement: It is critical to the community that we retain an Assessor who is very skilled and knowledgable at this point in time. It seems to me it's important even when no particular problems exist. The situation should never be allowed to spiral out of control.     Why Not Phase In New Assessments? It is tempting to reason this way: Because property taxes are capped anyway, we can phase in the reassessments over a long period of time, doing so only when property changes hands. It turns out that that won't work. Mr. Botto explained the reason to me very clearly, and I hope to illustrate here why it won't work.     The Fast And Dirty Way The fast and dirty way to reassess parcels every year is to raise the vast majority of the parcels in the township by a fixed amount, say 3%. Because the fast and dirty way does not reflect objective reality, however, using it inevitably assigns incorrect SEVs. Over time, the SEVs diverge farther and farther from 50% of the actual fair market value of each parcel. All of the tax laws depend upon SEVs being accurate every year, so using the fast and dirty method is therefore (I understand) illegal. One might think that using the fast and dirty way can't really hurt anything, because the assessment that really matters (because of the cap) occurs when a property changes hands. But that thought is completely wrong.     Following The Sales To illustrate why that thought is wrong, I'm going to walk through a practical example. Suppose a person buys a home for, say, $140,000. Taking into account the type, size, condition, and location of the home, the assessor determines the actual fair market value of the home to be, say, $126,000. That makes the SEV $63,000, and the buyer is slated to pay lower taxes than if the assessor had simply divided the purchase price in half. So far, so good, for the taxpayer. But that's only part of the picture. When the house was sold, the previous owner's SEV was probably much lower than $63,000 -- the normal situation when the fast and dirty way of reassessing has been used. Let's say for the sake of this example that the previous SEV was $49,000. The buyer gets out his calculator and figures out that the SEV for his parcel has suddenly gone up 28.5% when the SEV for every one of his neighbors, many of whom own homes similar to his, went up only 3%.   Although he gladly paid $140,000 for the home, and the assessor determined the actual fair market value to be $126,000, the buyer now goes to the Board of Review to insist that his new home is really worth only a little over $100,000, and that the SEV should be just 3% more than it was before, $50,470. And the buyer wins. The reason the buyer wins is that such a disproportionate leap in SEV is taken as prima facie evidence of Following the Sales, a practice expressly prohibited by law. The assessor is not supposed to be influenced by the actual sale price of the house, because assessments must be objective. The evidence from the other homes in the area, which are presumed by the law to be assessed accurately -- "proves" that the assessor was Following the Sales in establishing $126,000 as the fair market value of the parcel. If all the properties were properly assessed each year, the buyer's claim would be a perfectly valid one. If his new home had been correctly assessed in the past, it could not jump 28.5% in value just because it was sold. In fact, the validity of the whole assessment and taxation process depends upon the SEVs being correctly established each year.     Do Buyers Really Make Such Appeals? Yes, they do. To keep their taxes low, buyers who know how the process works routinely appeal their assessments in the manner I described above. Therefore, without a complete and proper reassessment, no additional new taxes can be collected even when a parcel changes hands. The only new buyers who actually pay more taxes are those who don't know how to work the system, or who choose not to do so.     What Next? As I reported earlier, I did read through a copy of the 14-point review, and it was sobering. Here is the scale used to chacterize the results of the review: 121 - 140: Compliance with the law 101 - 120: Non-compliance with the law 000 - 100: Substantial non-compliance with the law Torch Lake Township scored 87 points: substantial non-compliance. I understand that the board has indeed submitted a plan to bring our township into compliance, as they promised they would. If the review and the plan are public records, I will ask for copies and do my best to understand exactly what they mean, in detail. If I can do that, I intend to write a separate article for Michele that explains them both in plain English, to the best of my ability. Before posting the article, I'll let the Brian Cadwell and John Botto have a chance to look at it so I can correct any errors in my understanding. Have patience, though, for this will take some time to do. I'm already swamped with work, partly because I've spent more time learning about local government than I had intended.   It's worth it, but I have to eat too.    Lynn Torkelson
cooker	Keweenaw Viewponts Posted: Monday, January 30, 2006 10:46 AM Birch Bark,   Thanks a million for taking this site to a higher level.  We'd heard all the name calling and foul language we could stand.  You're aiming us at the heart of the matter and possible solutions.  Keep up the good work!
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:24 PM Mr Torkelson: Thank you for your time and effort looking into this and writing up such a clear summary.   I agree that equalization would only cause a further divergrnce. It is troubling that the tax burden of TLT unfairly falls on a smaller portion of the population. Clearly, there are some who have worked the system and are either paying very low or,  in some cases, no taxes. It is amazing that this situation has existed for so long.   I do hope that the new Board continues the efforts of the last Board in terms of rectifying this situation. They must, in my opinion, clearly explain the situation to residents so that residents are not left with "they're gonna raise taxes!", a tactic used to assist in last summer's recall.   I honestly believe that many residents are completely unaware of how Inequitable some of the taxes in TLT are.  And, I have to say, I am amazed that a group that called themselves "Concerned Citizens and Taxpayers" never had any concern regarding this issue and no plan on how to address it...instead they attempted to recall those who were working actively to correct the situation. I mention this only because, it seems to me, we should be aware of this factor as a new BOR and, potentially, a new Assessor is put in place (though based upon what I've seen, we'd do well to retain Mr Botto ). Additionally, I cannot understand why the School Board seems so non-pulsed by this issue.   In order to rectify long-standing problems and to move forward on a clear path we must ensure that it is not hindered by what has occurred in the past. Therefore, some "digging up of dirt" must occur to find out how we got to this point.   Bringing this issue to the forefront, in any venue, at the very least raises public awareness and will, presumably, make people realize that the appeals to the BOR, assessments, Homestead exemptions etc are watched by the public.   Thank you again for your efforts.
Lynn Torkelson	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2006 8:59 PM JRussell, I would hate to see the "digging up of dirt" getting in the way of solving the current problems faced by Torch Lake Township. Lynn Torkelson
birds eye	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Friday, February 03, 2006 1:06 PM Hey Birch Bark, have you made any headway with the 14 Pt. resolutions?  Am anxious to see what's planned and how soon we can expect some action. Time we start talking about solutions and not all the other garbage. Sure appreciate your time and effort in this.  During these rough times I have  suggested to many people that they go to the source and ask questions and give them an opportunity to explain themselves and the situations. That's what I have done....don't take another's word. You would have been surprised and disappointed at how many took certain points to heart and never dug around to find out if they were true. And after asking questions, I found out for myself that much of what was said wasn't true or was taken out of context. We need to get away from that. If we had more people like you in the Twp., think what we could accomplish! You did a great job of putting your discussion with Botto and your research into plain English.  I have spent some time on the phone with the assessor and he's been very patient with all of my questions. I wanted to better understand our own personal property taxes so I could better comprehend what the Twp. is facing. It really helped.  I was quite impressed with his knowledge and ability to present it in a way I could sort of understand! Quite complicated for sure. There was no trash talk or gossip by Mr. Botto. In light of everything he's faced, I found his professional manner refreshing.  Having said all that....I look forward to your next research presentation!! Soon??
onewhocares	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Friday, February 03, 2006 3:46 PM Hi Birch Bark,     Should we be posting to Keweenaw Viewpoints--Januaury 2006 and Before or to  just plain Keweenaw Viewpoints?  There seem to be new postings at both sites (or maybe it's just my computer playing tricks on me again.)
Lynn Torkelson	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:25 PM onewhocares,   This is the new thread to use for new posts. The other will remain for archival purposes, but is now so long it takes quite a while to load unless you have a very fast connection.   However, I haven't disabled posting on the old thread either, so we have some overlap now. This is kind of an informal site, as you can see!   Birch Bark
Lynn Torkelson	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Friday, February 03, 2006 5:30 PM birds eye,   I talked to Brian Cadwell about the 14-point review and the plan to bring our township into compliance, and what I hoped to do with them, and he was very forthcoming, agreeing to send them to me right away.   The slowness is on my end, as I'm too swamped even to look at them before next Tuesday. I promise to keep you posted, though.   Lynn Torkelson
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Friday, February 03, 2006 6:25 PM Birch Bark, I think it is very important to all the newcomers to this site to leave the continuity in tact so they can see how it has progressed, so if it isn't too difficult to meld these postings in with the others, would you please do so and then maybe next month, with a strong advanced warning, you can begin archiving. Please, please, please?
birds eye	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Friday, February 03, 2006 9:00 PM Well folks, I might have thrown you for a loop but I was not happy with the direction of the posts on the other forum. I would really like to concentrate on the issues and how to address them and not the personal grudges.  In saying that, sometimes actions or inactions by people may be the topic of conversation, but I don't want to make it personal.  I really do look forward to the 14 Point Review and how we are moving forward with that.
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2006 9:59 AM Birdseye: Thank you, again, for the time you've spent looking into this. I, too, look forward to the 14  point review.   I am certain that it will be a difficult, and expensive,  task to bring assessments in line but must be done.    A BOR and knowledgeable assessor who have the best interests of the Township in mind are critical at this juncture. Based on what I've seen, Mr Botto has done an excellent job under less-than-desirable circumstances.   The simplest, and most effective,  route to correct errors that reach back 25 years would be a local effort: The current Board. It is my hope that they will move forward on a positive path without falling into what has occurred in the past. They face a difficult task not only from a technical stand point, but also because it is apparent that the community is not as concerned about this issue as they should be, and the old "we'll just do it anyone" attitude is still prevelent as is proven within the postings.   Somehow everyone has to get past the name calling and low blows. There is a large difference between talking about a situation, or anamolies, than simply blasting someone out of the water. I think it is a sad way to live and a horrible example for children to see, especially within a community this size. The School Board actually has a code of conduct (perhaps the wrong title) for its meetings which states, in part, that the police will be called if someone is out of order and continues on. I have never heard that ANYwhere and think it is a sad example of how we conduct ourselves.  I will say it again, it did not used to be like this.   A large part of our township descend from immigrants who, by necessity, had to depend on each other for survival. It is a proud culture of treating your neighbor kindly. This is what we need to get back to. The Board can make steps in that area, and yes, I think there's someone else whose leadership skills can make great strides in that area. As melodramatic as all of this sounds, this is the biggest obstacle we face and will take the most skilled leadership to correct.   Perhaps the strongest measure of a good leader is how he handles someone with whom he disagrees.
ladylove	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2006 8:46 PM Yes, why can't we all be friends? After all we are all neighbors. Let us all get along as the Lord intended, and be friends and co-operate with one another.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Monday, February 06, 2006 9:50 AM You are right. I am sorry for getting into all this name calling . I can see now that all this negativity will not get anything done and we need to concentrate on the positive and work together to accomplish something good. We do need to forget any slights and mistakes, bruised egos, not getting our way, etc.of the past and concentrate on the future and toward that end, we have to mend our ways and feelings. I am willing to do my part from now on.
Lynn Torkelson	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Monday, February 06, 2006 6:01 PM Brian Cadwell mailed me both the 14-point review and the township's response January 31, just as he said he would. Today I've finally had the time to look them over, and it will take some doing to prepare an accurate article about those documents.   However, the township's response should not be a mystery to those who attended the November meeting of the Torch Lake Township board. Brian read the entire response aloud at the board meeting before it was approved.   To pull together and understand all the information that I need to write the article I promised about those two documents, my plan of attack is to begin by determining the nature of each deficiency identified in the 14-point review and the township's specific plan to correct each deficiency. The township's response contains a helpful cross-reference to each deficiency noted in the review.   For balance, I also plan to understand those portions of the review in which the township was not deficient. That way I'll be able to put the deficiencies that do exist into a broader perspective.   Lynn Torkelson
birds eye	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Monday, February 06, 2006 7:43 PM Thanks Birch Bark, look forward to your posts. Glad to know you have the 14 Pt. Review and the Twp.'s response. I was not able to be at the Nov. meeting. Thanks again for your open mind, dedication, and time and effort into seeing this through!
onewhocares	Torch Lake Township Taxes Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 2:48 PM Hooray!  Maybe now we really can let bygones be bygones and get on with having a happy, healthy township!
downrighthonest	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Tuesday, February 07, 2006 7:27 PM For Birdseye Re-The Foundation In your post January 24, 11:48am you asked for the second time for an explanation of the Foundation. No one has yet replied. Based on my research I shall try to unravel the puzzle which so upset the community - pitted "them against us". I am sure I will be severely attacked because, as every thinking person knows - the worst thing that can happen to those engaged in secretive, behind-the-scenes manipulation, is to be exposed to the spotlight of truth. After the Bootjack & Hubbell FDs were established the Twp Board opened a bank account for each to keep donations they received. The only stipulation over spending these funds by the FDs was that checks would be signed by the Twp Treasurer and the Secretary of the FD.the funds in these accounts were for the exclusive use of the FDs. In the mid 1980s, the Annual Bootjack FD Barbecue caught on, and the money rolled in. Because of the amount of money coming in, the new Chif Dan Sarazin began suggesting to Dept members that they shouldn't have to ask the Twp every time they wanted to spend money they had worked so hard to collect; they were always asking questions; and besides it shouldn't be where the "crooked politicians" could get their hands on it. He didn't bother to discuss the  the legality of such a move with his flock; they trusted his judgement and "leadership" - after all, he was a State Trooper.  The sheep promptly voted to open THEIR own bank account in which they could keep THEIR money and then elected themselves a Treasurer to manage this secret account. The mother Supervisor and her Board turned a blind eye to these activities. Around 1998 several citizens from Jacobsville began express their growing concern over the lack of oversight by the Twp Board of this secret bank account maintained by the Bootjack FD. The Supervisor, Jim Rheault,  was not keen on pursuing the matter (especially since he was the current FD Treasurer).  This obliged these citizens to make enquiries of the Attorney General's Office as to legalities of the matter.  In the Fall of 1999 the AG's Office replied that this second FD account was illegal. A Twp FD could only have a bank account established for its use by the Board.  There could only be one Treasurer for any such account and that was the Twp Treasurer.  With this ruling in hand,The Twp Treasurer Marlene Perreault, and Clerk Peggy Lanctot, demanded that the FD Treasurer, Supervisor Jim Rheault, and Chief Sarazin, comply with State Law and place the funds of secret FD account  in the bank account legally established for the FD by the Twp. Needless to say, the Chief was not about to have HIS authority messed with by a couple of women politicians! To demonstrate their resourcefulness to the boys, Sarazin & Rheault had  Attorney Gerald Vairo draw up "Articles of Incorporation For use by Domestic Nonprofit Corporation" to establish the "Bootjack Fire & Rescue Foundation, Inc.". This application was signed  by Dan Sarazin, Vicky Loukus, James Stevens, Joseph Beveridge, and James Rheault and filed by Vairo,with the required fees, on their behalf with the State Bureau of Corporate Services, May 15, 2000. (I find it disturbing that Vairo was with the same firm which the Township had hired as their legal advisor.) The secret FD Bank Account was then drained by a number of rapid expenditures on fire equipment, $18,000 was placed in the secret Foundation account, and about $1200 was passed to the Twp Treasurer for deposit in the legal Twp FD bank account.  I understand that at the May, 2005 Twp Board Meeting, Sarazin refused to answer any direct questions about the Foundation by the Board members other than to say he was the President.  The Executive lineup of the Foundation is:         President -Dan Sarazin         Vice Pres - Joe Beveridge (Assistant 1st Chief)         Secretary - Sally Beaudette (Sarazin's Sister)         Treasurer - Lou Ambuehl (Sarazin,s Brother-in-law)         plus six directors from the Bootjack gang The amount of money the Bootjack Department has at its disposal is estimated to be:         Legal Twp Bank Account: 2,400         Fema Grant: 96,000         Voted Extra Assessment - by 2010: 242,000         Foundation: 140,000         First Responders: 22,000         Womens FD Auxiliary: 38,000 To avoid the legal requirement that money & checks designated for the  BJFD be placed in the Twp Fire Dept Account, Sarzin directs donors to make checks out to the Foundation and has FD tickets printed as Bootjack Fire & Rescue Foundation, etc.  A subtlety that is not seen by the average buyer who thinks they are supporting the Fire Dept. What's the Difference? Plenty. There is no oversight by the Twp  of the expenditure of the moneys controlled by the Foundation. They are absolutely secretive about THEIR operation, THEIR money, and resort to "Trust Us". (oh yeah! the last time we heard that was from the former local Red Cross Executives). Why the secrecy?  Perhaps Sarazin & company don't want the public to know that OUR  money, collected by the Foundation for "Charitable fire, medical and emergency services support in the Bootjack area" were donated to support the Lake Linden Band trip to Disney World last year. (Sarazin is the Vice President of the School Board) - "Trust Us". Or that OUR money collected for Fire Fighters was donated by the Foundation to the Senior Class Alcohol Free Graduation Party last year - "Trust Us".  Or that OUR money funded an invitation-only, all-expenses-paid Christmas Season Party last December at the Dreamland Hotel held for Firemen & retired Firemen and their families, and special guests such as the recently appointed Twp Supervisor, Brian Cadwell in honor of his birthday. (Not invited was Clarence "Frog" Perreault retired after 37 years service; after all, his wife Marlene Perreault, is former Twp Treasurer!).(Note that the Dreamland is run by Sarazin's brother & sister - you go figure!) "Trust Us" (Such parties used to be held as potluck, pay-as-you-go, in the Fire Hall) The question is, Birdseye, how do the residents of the Twp stop this runaway fire truck?
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 7:11 AM Downrighthonest: Thank you for your clear and extensive summary of the Foundation situation. You've summarized most of the story. I am sure that some will say it is an attack on one individual. It is not. This is wrong and the Township, the Fire Department and the community should not accept this.   It is interesting to note that the FEMA grant was applied for, and let to,  the "Bootjack Fire and Rescue". I am not certain of the formal title for the Township Fire Department........but that title is a little too close for me. The FEMA grant is under the control of the Township and not the Foundation, thankfully.   I do hope that at the BBQ this summer, the Fire Fighters do not chose to put "Paid 100% with private funds, NO tax payer dollars used" signs on the Equipment.........FEMA money IS taxpayer dollars. Federal Dollars.   There is a better way to conduct business. It is time it starts happening as this puts the entire community at risk and does NOBODY any favors.
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:55 PM downrighthonest: In regard to your "how do we stop the runaway fire truck" question, the short answer is this, I believe.   You go to the guy who is responsible which, in my opinion is the Supervisor and the current Board.  When they took office, they accepted a fiduciary responsibility to act on behalf of, and in the best interests of the Township.  Umder Michigan law, the Fire Department reports into, and operates under, the Board.  Personal relationships aside, they have a responsibilty to act on behalf of the Township.   I would imagine that the MTA as well as the Township attorney can provide guidance and suggestions for the proper course of action to get this under control. I hope the new Board utilizes these.   I am wondering if the folks on The Foundation board are aware that they are responsible for, and personally liable for, the actions of the Nonprofit. Many people who get involved in nonprofits are not aware of this.    I would like to mull your posting over a bit more, but I have several questions; such as the $38K that the auxillary has.  I have more questions and will list them later.  I am really amazed that this has occured. As I said before, nonprofits should NOT have a fat bank account......it is simply taking money from donators bank accounts and putting it into a nonprofit account to sit.   I look forward to seeing what the new TLT Board's course of action is. This is not an issue that can be ignored or will go away, but they should have the first shot at addressing the issue and coming up with a plan to resolve it.
GoBackToCanada	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 2:59 PM JR,   The way I understood it was, the FD had a very feasable reason for starting the Foundation, and that was because the Board was trying to dictate as to what the FD could use their money toward and what they couldn't. If I was out raising money to buy a fire truck, supplies, gear, etc. and then people tried to tell me how to spend that money...I'd protest also.   Also, the FD buys their own trucks with the money in the foundation's fund...NOT the township fund. If you can't figure it out, fire trucks are immensly expensive, and with the "$140K" that is allegedly in their account now, they couldn't buy a truck and have any money left to operate. Think about that one. If the township was to pay for everything the FD needed to operate, taxpayers would be a lot more upset about their taxes than they are now.   Tell me, what suspicious things do you think the FD is doing with the Foundation money that you have your nose out of joint about it? What exactly are you accusing them of? You must have some suspicions if you are so eager to know what they make/spend in a year.
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 4:19 PM GBTC: I am sure the new Board will be able to enlighten the community after they look into things.   I will list a few, but not all, of the errors the Foundation made:   1. It is a violation of IRS code and of MIchigan State Nonprofit law to refuse to disclose your 990's.   2. The Foundation raises monies under the auspices of it being for the Fire Department. They have no business making donations to other charities.  If you were to go around town with a coffee can asking for donations for the "new township park", say, and then after collecting the money, give it to your church.......well, it helps the community, and it's a good thing to do, but all the people who put quarters in your can thought they were going to the township  project and  monies were under township control.   3. There is a reason WHY Fire Departments report INTO Township Boards. This would be a good demonstration of the reason for such laws.   4.Even if every single penny can be accounted for and was spent directly on Fire Equipment, what has occured is wrong and is NOT IAW the law.  Residents of TLT, and in particular, the New Board should have a problem with this...after all they are responsible for the Fire Department.     You have really answered your own question......perhaps TLT Board would not let the Fire Department do what they wanted to with the money........but that is exactly why there is a Board, and that is what Michigan State Law has set up. Torch Lake Township can no longer run under the "we'll just do it our way" attitude. Their are requirements to be met.   You know, the new Board may very well say no to the Fire Department about something.......after all they have a responsibility to the Township...and then what would the Fire Department do?   And lastly, based upon what is in the Bank acount of The Foundation........I can tell you, it is NOT being handled responsibly. There is NO reason the Foundation should consistantly have over $20 THOUSAND dollars in the bank. None. And......they didn't want anybody to know.
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:15 AM GBTC- A little analogy for you to consider as you mull over the TLT situation:   Say I was your neighbor. Every morning I pulled out of the driveway to go to work, but I drove my car backwards down the street. Now, let’s just say I was really good at driving in reverse: you never saw me swerve outside the lines, I controlled the car, everything seemed fine…even though it was a bit odd.   There are, however, rules that prevent one from driving a car in reverse down the road.   Would you report me? Would you tell me to stop….or would you let me continue to do this knowing that your wife or your teenage daughter or even a complete stranger may be hurt by may actions?   Perhaps my intentions were good: I was just trying to get to work and didn’t want to hurt anybody. Or, perhaps, my thoughts were “to heck with the law, I’ll just do it my way”.  It is irrelevant. Whether I was driving in reverse intentionally or innocently, it is still wrong and should be stopped for the good of all.   Remember, you never saw me drive unsafely…it’s just that I drove in reverse.  Maybe I ended up in the ditch a few times when you weren’t looking, and maybe I didn’t.  Would you take action to make me drive down the road like the rest of the population, or would you close your eyes and let me do it my own way?   I would argue that you should stop such behavior. There are reasons for the rules to prevent such actions and, even if I was really good at driving in reverse, it is not right and there is a huge potential for something to go horribly wrong.   And, in keeping with this example, even if every single thing is in order with The Foundation, they are driving the car (or fire truck) down the road backwards and there are citizens who are not willing to let this occur anymore.    And it is not because they are “out to get one guy” or are “against two families”  (or whatever that tag line is that is supposed to divert focus from inappropriate behavior).   And lastly, the new fire truck money came from FEMA. I have read the requirements for the Grant and it would not have been given to a nonprofit, even though the FEMA website lists the grant as being let to "Bootjack Fire and Rescue". That money is TLT money.
cooker	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 7:35 AM JR, Why don't you just give up?  GBTC is unable to comprehend what you're saying no matter how simply you state it.  "There are none so deaf as those who WILL not hear."  I don't think you'll ever get this woman to even try to understand what you're saying no matter how many ways you put it.
downrighthonest	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 8:07 AM JR - good analogy the one thing you might have added was that the car was being driven by a former State Trooper.  The truck is being paid for from the Special Assessment. Cooker is right - GBTC is off in La La Land. You notice her statement about why they started their private bank account is a vague washover. Sarazin was a serving Cop when he led them into that illegal move.  Her favorite Supervisor Maragaret Rheault was in the Chair at the time w. Puddgy Perreault, G. Pini, et al. - the one's Sarazin told his boys were "crooked politicians who are going to take OUR money."
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:14 PM Hi. I just caught a record trout in the middle of a frozen lake using a ten point buck for bait on opening day! I hung it on a tag elder by a blueberry bush and that's the truth. Say, listen I just read through all these postings and wished to contribute something. All the pompous names made me think of being: God Almighty or The One Who Can't Be Refuted or Master Baiter, but I chose the modest title you see here instead.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:29 PM So, OK, what can I contribute? I have seen some pretty emotional to say the least responses, mostly on the defensive side, but some from the offence too, lets admit. But I am thinking if there are others out there like me who haven't been here all that long and now wonder exactly what's going on? And who are these guys? I mean really. When they come to your door and they tell you what they say is the truth and then you read this from top to bottom well, it makes me wonder. So anyway, I am wondering and waiting I guess.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 11:40 PM And those pretty straight forward questions by j Russell which no one has ever addressed, and now there are more questions like can the foundation give money to other non profit organizations, and is it part of the fire department or a separate entity?? Well, when I contributed to it, I thought the money was going directly to the fire department and that's what I wanted. Now I have heard hints that this foundation may be acting outside the law and that concerns me. So I want to know what they are going to do about it? I don't see why we need to wait for the board to act on it. First of all, it shouldn't be their problem, it should be the fire department's obligation to clear things up.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Friday, February 10, 2006 7:16 PM Or if Im wrong, tell me but those guys who came to my place seemed like desent fellows and I think they'd want to clear up any aspersions or accusations themselfs right away to protect there reputation. Not wait around for the board to do it.
cbuck	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2006 4:39 AM The issue of the IRS Form 990s for Bootjack Fire & Rescue Foundation, Inc. caught my attention. I presume those who wanted copies of them now have their hands on them up thro' the latest year on file 2004. If you are still looking for copies of the 990s, I can give you directions on how to get the 2002, 2003, and 2004 filings in front of you in fifteen minutes. You don't have to rely on the generous nature of a charitable organization's management to follow federal law and show you their 990s. They are freely accessible thro' the internet with just a few keystrokes. It only took me a half hour of database blasting to muck them out. -Charles Buck
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:35 AM CBuck Thanks for the input. I believe it is in the previous thread but for anyone who wants to look at the 990s    www.guidestar.org   You have to register, but do not have to pay (there is a "Premium Membership" for which a fee is charged, but you don't need that ), in order to view the documents.    However, The Foundation is required by both Michigan State Law and IRS code to provide copies of the 990's upon request. The top right corner of the 990 states this and IRS code states that copies must be provided within 10 (??) days of a written request. (not sure of the exact details off the top of my head)   The important point, however, is that The Foundation should never have refused these to anyone.  And, legalities aside, any reputable charity would never even attempt to hide such information.   From a website recommended by Mich State: http://www.boardsource.org/QnA.asp?Category=16     How can we become a more accountable organization?  Make your 990s easily available.   Publish an annual report with financial data.   Rely on annual independent audits.   Create necessary policies and enforce them regularly.   Avoid and manage conflicts of interest.   Understand your board's role and responsibilities.   Be familiar with intermediate sanctions.   Keep good records and keep them organized.   Know the federal regulations and your state laws.   Embrace inclusiveness.
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2006 8:55 AM Lastword: To date, they have not provided a single answer. Not to anything.   Now, if everything were on the level common sense would tell us that they would simply provide an answer or explanation. They have not. They would not even answer the question in the previous thread when asked how much their "hefty" down payment was toward the FEMA grant matching.  It's a very simple question and there should be nothing to hide.  And, the answer was available in their 990's which is public information...they should have just answered the question.   They have made many accusations with absolutely no substance. They claimed that the Board tried to "steal" the money that "they raised" (forgetting that people thought they were donating to the TLT Fire Dept not a nonprofit operating secretly). They claimed that the most recent board was involved in a slippery deal with the coffee shop (forgetting that the purchase was initiated under Supervisor "R" and therefore they were insinuating that he was slippery as well).  There never HAVE been any facts behind their accusations.   One of the current Board members submitted a Letter to the Editor last Spring claiming the recalled Board  "wouldn't let the Firemen use the new Hovercraft". It was very accusatory. However, the TLT Attorney told the recalled Board that the contract presented by The Foundation could NOT be signed.    So, one must assume that we now have a Board member who expects the Board to operate against TLT legal counsel. I would say this would be a direct violation of the Board's fiduciary responsibility. Moreover, it would be extremely foolish, and really not very smart,  to act against legal counsel when signing a contract.   However, mistruths were spread and the Township bought into the "they won't let us use the Hovercraft". This is part of what they said when they came knocking on everyone's door last summer. Last Fall I checked into their accusations, and I can tell you unequivicolly that every single one was not true....but many residents also thought they were "nice guys" and believed them without asking any questions.   There is absolutely no doubt that The Foundation is no fiscal responsibility and that the funds should be under TLT control.......regardless of WHO raised the money DONORs thought it was going to The Bootjack Fire Department.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2006 9:54 AM Whoa now, wait a minute. Now I read all thru the posts going back to August last year and I don't want to do it again, it was like work, but me impression was that there were some pompous names used and that after a while there was a lot of name calling and accusations made and something about a rumor but it never got told what that was, just hinted and it seemed to be there are 2 issues being debated or yelled about, or is it just one? Or is it 3? Some of those writing like watsup and snowshoe are full of natural gas I'd say but JRussel I always saw you never stooped to low blows or name clallings so I ask you, what if an area like say Point Mills want to start there own volunteer fire department, so a bunch of neighbors get together and see they have a small bunch of guys ready willing and able and they can raise enough money to buy a used fire truck, etc, now do they have to go to the county or the board to form themselfs into a unit, and get someones approval or can they act on there own?
vertatem	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2006 3:06 PM For Downrighthonest I read the story you put up feb 7 about the foundation.  I read it at least 10 times and each time I saw more and got madder each time.   Since I was working I bought the fire dept chicken believing that the money was going to get outfits and stuff for the men.  Now I find out that Sarazin and his gang did not put my money in the FD account set up by the twp but in a secret slush fund for Dan. Then this outfit had a big party at dreamland hotel. I wasn't invited even tho I gave money all these years. Like you said go figure - I did. I figure that party must have cost at least 1500 and I can see Ambule writing that check and Sarazin signing it to and then Ambule giving it to Lory his wife and Tod  both Dannys sister & brother.  Nice work if you can get it. I wa so mad I went to the library and asked the girl what the name was for this type of thieving. She said nepotism and I looked it up and it means the guy who holds the purse is giving it out to his family. I got another name for it. And his buddy Cadwell and his yes board wont do a dam thing to stop this and neither will the cops cause him and Dan are one of them. You could see the old board was angling to hit them and they saw it coming so Sarazin and his gang organized the recal and got them out. I cansee that the new truck which they needed like a whole in the head will be paid for by that special tax I didn't get to vote on but now I got to pay, and the 96 thou will by them guys all the new gear they could ever want. So no more money from me - not one dime >ever. Hubbel yes themguys and their mean wifes no.     So they still got the slush fund to play with and the twp pays all their operating bills. I figured out why they call it the foundation //// its to remind them all about all the foundations they saved over the years. hah hah I like the stuff you write its right  keep it coming.
cbuck	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Saturday, February 11, 2006 7:06 PM Thanks for confirming you have the 990s. Last Word was right, it is work - painful work - going back and reading past posts. For those who suffer registration fatigue, here's a link to a non-registration website, The Foundation Center, to perform free 990 searches. (I prefer searching by zip code myself.) Sorry for the lack of link formatting; I've no desire to do more reading to find out how to properly post links here. Copy and paste it. http://tfcny.fdncenter.org/990s/990search/esearch.php -Charles Buck
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 9:39 AM I been thinking about what was said here more than once about the fire department has been used for political purposes. I didn't think anything about that when they came around with the recall but somehow it doesn't seem right to me. And didn't someone say this wasn't the first time? What was the other?
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 1:11 PM LastWord- I believe when they came around last summer they introduced themselves as being from the "Concerned Citizens and Taxpayers Coalition" but I could be wrong.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:27 PM JRussell, so that doesn't count legally on a tecnicality? But what about the other time-s? What did they call theemselfs then? And what is that rumor everyone hinted at but nobody wrote about? Is it against the rules here to say openly what that was about?
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 2:30 PM You say they havent' answered any of your questions, not one. Well I am having trouble getting answers to mine too!
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:00 PM   Lastword: You signed onto this website and said that you were upset that your donations to the Fire Department had gone to other things. The Truth    is, that's enough, isn't it?   There are plenty examples just in these postings of where The Foundation has done wrong. A hypothetical example with not bring The Truth to light any further.   Regarding the rumor, I don't know to what you are referring. It was mentioned that Supervisor M had a private agenda to get his road paved.  Apparently people believed this.  Now, if this was Supervisor M's agenda....do you really think he would have asked for The Foundation's financial records and do you think that he would have tried to clear up the Tax issues? The answer is "NO" because it would have gone against the Chief.   So the people who bought into that rumor failed to look at very simple logic and instead believed the line of bologna.  It seems to me that those folks will believe just about anything...no matter how ridiculous it is...so long as it comes from the right source....and it really leaves a lot of us snickering because simple logic will tell you it's not true.   I realize these are rather strong words, but I have a low tolerance for the rumor mill and and even lower tolerance when people buy into things that are completely devoid of common sense...which is frequently the case with that crowd.   As for the "Slippery slope" I don't ski, but thanks.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 5:50 PM JRussell, I AM upset that money I donated to the fire department didnt' go to the fire department but to a foundation which you say is illegal. I asked if there was more issues than jut the foundation. I read some things about the board of the township and about the fire department separatly to the foundation issue. I only directed my questions to you since you didnt' resort to name calling. But anyone out there can answer me. Sorry if I made you mad. And I never said anything about a slippery slope.
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:54 PM lastword: It's OK. Not mad at 'tal. There's been quite a bit of bologna that's gone on in these posts, as you know from reading thru them, the majority of which has come from folks not wanting to answer questions.   The Foundation, itself, is not illegal. It is a nonprofit. However, people like you and I and many others, have given money thinking it was going to the Bootjack Fire Department. Many are not even aware that The Foundation operates as a complete separate entity. Furthermore, The Foundation Folks simply are not capable of responsibly handling the sum of money that they have....as evidenced by a consistant balance of more than $20,000 at the end of each year.   Other than the Supervisor M rumor, I honestly don't know what you are referring to. I do know, as I said in the previous post, that there's a lot of foolish bologna that is spread by folks, who wish to sweep the tax issues under the rug and allow The Foundation to operate in secrecy.
downrighthonest	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Sunday, February 12, 2006 10:08 PM J Russell You may have hit the proverbial nail - Tax Issues. Now that's something no- one talks about in the open and I beleieve lies at the bottom of the whole problem with Sarazin's conduct and him fathering the recalls etc. The results of my current enquiries will be up here within the next week or so.   The problems which hit the old Board were many, and some became quite complex because of the constant drumming by the Fire Dept syncophants. I  do believe Sarazin read Mine Kanmpf and has put into practice many of the theories preached therin by Hitler. e.g. Tell a big lie, keep repeating it,shout down anyone who says otherwise, bully the average citizen with it, until it eventually becomes the truth. Any person who protests is to be disparaged, isolated and cast out - including your own supporters.   However, we will exam each problem, one at a time, and expose it with the spotlight of truth.   PS.  I do believe I owe a correction on the side of truth. That party at Dreamland may not have been held in Dec 05, but rather Jan 06.   Like ol' Ernie used to say - keep your peapicken sense of humor.
birds eye	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 13, 2006 2:06 PM Have been reading in quiet interest. Am appalled that Foundation money would be used for a political birthday party, band trips and whatever else.  Are we SURE on that??  If so, I think there might just be a legal issue with the Fire Chief also being the President of the Foundation and authorizing payment for a political event at his family’s place of business with donated money, money earmarked for the Fire and Rescue. Can this be verified?? I wonder if Blueberry is still with us! I believe it was that poster that told us the Foundation pays for all the Band-Aids and supplies and that we should be nice because the Foundation is there to help these men!!! Wonder if she thinks it's OK to use this hard earned money for something other than our firefighter's needs.  Is it OK to use donated money for a birthday party for a select few? I certainly don’t think it’s legal or morally correct. What is the Foundation’s mission?  I doubt it’s to be a generic philanthropic charity. People perceive their donations to this Foundation as supporting their fire dept. While I am sure the LL Band really appreciated the donations and probably was worthy of it, the VP of the LL school board,/Fire Chief /President of the Foundation had no business using the firefighting money on school related issues or anything outside of the fire dept. Seems like it’s one hand in too many pots. Not sure how the rules read, but does a non-profit foundation have to vote on things and hold public meetings, keep public copies of minutes, vote only when there is a quorum?  Or can one person make decisions without a vote etc.?  And why on earth does the Auxiliary have so much money? What do they use their funds for? I am not attacking this group….would just like to be informed so I can put the pieces of this puzzle together. There seem to be some missing pieces. One other question (I may have skimmed the post too quickly and this may have already been answered) but who pays for this new fire truck?  At one point I thought GBTC (?) said the Foundation did.  If so, what is the FEMA (?) grant and special assessment for? What happens to the old truck? If sold, what account does that money go into?  Didn't the Hovercraft money go to the Foundation? With all that is being brought to the surface, BC and the Board better act on this. Seems to me the Twp. is being drained bone dry and Foundation is flourishing  with misinformed donations. Something is wrong with this picture. Let’s keep the investigation going and I hope we have some valid input from people directly involved with these groups. I feel if there is nothing to hide, if everything is above board, then our questions/concerns will be answered.
cooker	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 13, 2006 4:29 PM Birdseye,   VERY good points.  Thanks for putting it into perspective.  Now let's hope someone from the Foundation, Fire Dept. and township board will answer a few of the questions.  Why are they so reluctant to explain/defend their acts?  Hiding too much, perhaps?  Ashamed?  Haven't been programmed to answer for the big guns?  What's the reason?  Why are our elected officials so silent?
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 13, 2006 8:35 PM I guess what I was asking is are there 3 or4 seperate issues or are they all part of one big issue and if theres a solution, is it one or 3 or 4 different solutions? Was somethings really illegal or just a big scam andwhats the punishment? If its only a slap on the wrist then no authority wants to do anything because its an election year. Now I went back again to read Jan 2006 and before and we really need an index to find things but starting around Aug, the first issue is the recall and then that gets tied in with the homestead exemptions and the 40k missing from the school budget and that brings in that Dan Saresan is on the school board and the fire chief and the leader of the recall.Thats around Oct The next issue that comes up is the hover craft and the fire chief again and thats around Dec. And the insurance of the hover craft and all fire equipment goes to one guy Hunnala it says Jan 13.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 5:58 PM I don't know if the one guy Hunnala is the guys name or a dirty finnish word. If its the last, my appologies. I didnt' know I was just repeating what it said Jan 13.
cooker	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 8:45 AM Is the Township Board meeting tonight?  Anyone think that it will address any of the concerns expressed here?  What will Chief tell the Board his group needs now?
BeNice	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:01 PM Is anyone from site going to bring up these questions at the board meeting tonight, or is this site and the people who post here just blowing hot air?
birds eye	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 1:12 PM Last Word, I think it's pretty evident that there are now several issues at hand.  Unfortunately when one looks into and tries to verify something, it only leads to questionable activities in other areas. Are you concerned?   Cooker, let's hope Chief lays low for a while. His trail seems to be growing.   I am hoping we'll hear some pro-action on the 14 Pt. plan tonight. That is something that NEEDS to be started. There are certain people out there that are fighting the taxation issues and won't be too happy if we get down to the nitty gritty.  In fact, I wonder if the "key" tribunal meeting has taken place. That surely could set a precedence for a lot of us and potentially cost the Twp. money in lost taxes. But if it's legal, we might as well all follow suit! If it's not granted and what has been done for so many years is illegal, are back taxes collected? Shall be interesting to see how this plays out. As a previous poster suggested, starting with proper homesteading would be a quick and equitable start.  But when Board members party with these people that are bucking the system, can we really expect this plan to be put into action anytime soon? I really just don't see it. I am also wondering if the board is dragging their feet until they can get a new BOR and assessor in place, ones that can be controlled and manipulated. I hope not as too many years of in-house control have gotten the Twp. into this dismal position.  But I will say I am beginning to wonder.
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 2:46 PM Benice "Blowing hot air" implies conveying of information which is unimportant. I would say that the tax issues, as well as The Foundation issues are of critical importance to the township; not "hot air".   I am certain The Board will present some course of action to resolve these issues tonight. If they don't, I'd have to say they are not the right avenue to correct the problems.   Nobody has to address them.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 4:49 PM JR, I hope you know something we don't. Why would the board do anything if the leader,Brian Cadwell was given a birthday party at Dreamland Bar and Grill using foundation money? It's like cutting your own head off. But more important is where do we go for justice when the board does nothing? do we start at the bottom with the Houghton County Prosecutor? Or go to the top?
birds eye	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 5:43 PM Last Word, don't know what JRussell thinks as he seems to have a better handle on the legal end of things but I don't think we'll get much done at the local level. Seems too many are related or best friends. I have a feeling somebody downstate might be very interested in this saga. I have also thought that if we could find a good, independent investigative reporter/writer (not from the area!!) they could really have a story!! Someone that can't be wined and dined and isn't afraid to uncover any facts or step on any feet to get to the bottom of this.  Could be very interesting. Seems to me we are seeing more and more evidence, not just hear-say that indicates a lot of questionable activity. It’s really sad to see how this has pulled apart the community.  Stay tuned.
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:32 PM Birds eye, if what you say is true about newspaper investigations, you must mean some down state newspaper like the Detroit Free Press because isn't the Marquette paper owned by the same people as the DMG?
cooker	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:40 PM Am I the only one who finds it strange/interesting that Chief (and his band of merry maids/men) and the township board are so quiet?
Last Word	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 6:48 PM You must be the only one who finds it triply strange/interesting. Maybe he told them all to head for the hills, They can run but they can't hide. Everybody can read this -even in Timbuctoo if they want to. What they would make of all this I dont' know.
Lynn Torkelson	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Wednesday, February 15, 2006 11:29 PM At the Torch Lake Township board meeting tonight, Bootjack Fire and Rescue Chief Dan Sarazin presented a detailed history of the Foundation, including the reasons for starting it and the legal basis for establishing it. He also described many of the purchases made possible by the money raised by the department and the foundation. His entire report, plus a binder full of supporting documents, will be available for public viewing at the Hubbell Community Center. Chief Sarazin won't be posting about this matter in these discussions, but he'll be sending me an electronic copy of the report that he read tonight so KeweenawNow will be able to publish it. In response to my question at the meeting, Brian Cadwell explained that the state has not yet responded to the board's plan to correct the deficiencies identified in last year's 14-poijnt review. However, he's been talking with Donald Bode about the situation and Brian plans to address the matter at next month's board meeting. Some other things came up tonight that might interest readers here: The board is looking at sign ordinances with a view toward establishing one for our township. The Boat Launch project is on track for construction starting this spring. The Board of Review meetings were rescheduled from March 13 to March 15-16. I know I owe you a report on the 14-point review and the township's response, but my work always has a higher priority, and there's been a ton of that lately. I'll get the report done though!   Lynn Torkelson
onewhocares	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 1:11 AM Birch Bark,     Thanks for your report on tonight's township meeting.  I was wondering if anyone would fill us in on what went on.  I do appreciate your very informative reports, but I disagree with you when you say to your posters, "I know I owe you a..."  I don't think you owe us anything; in fact, I think some posters are taking advantage of you and hiding behind their computers.       Thank you
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 9:34 AM onewhocares: If it were not for this forum, I am certain the Chief would have never disclosed anything about The Foundation.   He was asked in a Board meeting last Spring and refused to answer any questions. He would not disclose who was on the Board of The Foundation. He would not provide Articles of Incorporation. Both of those piece of information are completely innocuous. He also refused to provide any financial information.   Therefore, going to The Chief and asking questions would have been a waste of time. He clearly chose to hide, and illegally hide I might add, that information.   This forum, as with many on the web, was set up with user names, just as CB's were in the 1970's. There is nothing less credible about sharing information in this venue, especially when it can be verified.   If you go back and read through the posts, you will see that as soon as ANY questions about The Foundation were raised they were met with a barrage of immature name calling and lies (accusations which could be proven false). This is how The Foundation has chosen to operate. Why would anyone waste their time asking questions publicly?   I am not at all surprised that The Foundation disclosed their records...finally. I would assume they were advised to do so. It is beneficial to the community, and I give them credit for that.  However, I still feel very strongly that The Foundation is not fiscally responsible.   If residents want to donate to The Foundation, it needs to be very, very clear that it is going to a nonprofit entity over which the Board has no control. Previously, many  people were under the impression that their donations were going to the Fire Department. Instead The Foundation held birthday parties and made donations to the marching band (good cause...but not what the people expected).   I will state it again, there is no reason The Foundation should take money out of your bank account and put it in theirs just to sit there. Maintaining a consistent balance of $20,000 in an organization like the Foundation shows fiscal irresponsibility.   Without consent, TLT cannot stop/prevent or provide input into any of The Foundation's activities any more than they could the Quitter's Guild. It is a nonprofit and completely separate entity. However, they can prevent The Foundation from raising funds and operating under the auspices of being part of the TOWNSHIP's fire department...because they are not.    To my understanding, The Foundation can legally donate money to the marching band and hold birthday parties. Is it morally correct? Absolutely not. If the money was under TLT control they could not use it in such a manner. I doubt that anyone who donated money would have wanted to pay for a birthday party.   It is apparent that The Foundation has provided the community with a lot of extra equipment...........but I'd have to say isn't that what the people expected would be done with their donations???   The Foundation has a rather warped view of the funds...they view it as "their money...not the Townships".......I'd have to say it is DONATED money by the community...it is entrusted to them. Semantics? No. Big difference and something they clearly fail to understand.   Lastly, consider this. Many residents have donated to The Foundation. If The Foundation chose to dissolve....they could write a check to any nonprofit they chose.  All of your donations, and the 20,000 other dollars (or more) could go to the church, the boy scouts, the Quilter's guild....or any other nonprofit.  What would all of those donors think then?   One last thought........I believe the TLT budget for the Fire Department is about $16,000/annum. The Foundation raises $40,000/annum. Do you really want a nonprofit, who operates so independently, controlling such a large percent of the budget which finances our Fire Department...........especially an organization who has operated secretly for so long?   So, I'd say it is a good step for the Chief to provide this information. Do I think he's a stand up guy? No. It should have been this way from the beginning  but it took this forum to make it happen. Their name calling and aggressive tactics don't work here and all the world can see how foolishly they behave.....go back through the posts.
justasking	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:59 AM If the foundation information has been so secret, how do you know money was spent for a party?    Did I miss something in a past post that explained this?  Sorry if I did, but this site gets  confusing at times
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:37 AM justasking: Lots of posts here. Read  "downrighthonest" post of 7 Feb for a rundown on The Foundation: it's a good summary.
onewhocares	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 2:58 PM We will never know for sure if "Chief would have opned up about the foundation without this forum., but go ahead--take credit.   Would you please provide proof that the foundation paid for a birthday party and donated money to the band? Thanks
cooker	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:39 PM Why don't you ask the Super about his birthday party at Dreamland?  Ask Chief about the donation to the band trip.  Go to the source for your information.
justasking	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:07 PM I've read downrighthonest's post of Feb 7, and I still don't understand where the information (about money being spent on a party) is coming from.  I'm asking (from who ever started the post about the party) did you  read records/minutes that gave this information?  Where you at this party and know first hand this happened?
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 5:17 PM "onewhocares"   I take no credit for the Chief disclosing the financial records....there is no need to.    A small bit of common sense, however, would tell us that if he refused to answer any questions in a public forum and to illegally withhold financial information, than he would not have given 990's upon request.   I agree, with a prior post. Go ask Mr. Sarazin directly. He should openly and honestly answer questions.   It appears to me that you are swatting at flies in an attempt to defend/placate Chief's behavior, all the while there is a dead elephant on the table.   If you are not disturbed by what has occured, I can tell you that Nonprofits do not and should not operate in the manner he has chosen to run  The Foundation. There is no reason for any nonprofit to operate in this manner. None.
iceman	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:14 PM I think you are missing the point of the question - I will repeat it here.  Do you have some sort of proof the super's birthday party was paid for by the foundation? If so... let's see it. You want the chief to put all his cards on the table... let's have yours. I don't think you can prove the birthday party for the super was PAID FOR by the foundation. The fact that there was a party is seperate from who paid for it. You may want to check your facts before you go out on a limb on this one.  I think you are putting this out there to stir the pot.... a prime example of the pot calling the kettle black !
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 8:41 PM I expect him to put all his cards on the table??????   No, cupcake, it's MICHIGAN STATE LAW as well as the INTERNAL REVENUE SERVICE.......in addition to that basic common sense will tell you that any nonprofit has no business operating in the manner that The Foundation has.   I'm assuming that The Foundation is now going to operate IAW recommended practices for reputable nonprofits........this would include answering financial questions and how they choose to spend donated money.   The birthday party and the donation to the marching band are wrong. However, as I stated earlier, to my knowledge no illegal. Immoral and foolish, yes...illegal probably not.   I care more that the books were hidden and that they take people's donations under the auspices of money going to the Bootjack Fire Department. Even if there never was a birthday party.......what they have done is not IAW Federal and State laws. And they show NO fiscal responsibility.   It is amazing to me that you folks are trying so hard to dig up something.......look at the big picture, what has been done is wrong. Period. You can dress it up anyway you want, but the fact remains.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:38 PM I find it interesting that justasking, onewhocares and iceman are not denying that the foundation paid for Brian Cadwell's birthday party at the Dreamland Bar; they are sincerely concerned with how someone found out! One asks -Did you read the minutes? (How can anyone get to read the secret minutes of the secret foundation?) Another asks-Were you at the party?(We know everyone who was at the party, so if you were there, we will figure out who the ratfink is and get him.) another asks -Where's your proof? I don't know but these questions of yours suggest if not an absolute proof, a strong credibility to the statement that the foundation did indeed pay for the birthday party at the Dreamland Bar for Brian Cadwell.
BigGuy	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Thursday, February 16, 2006 10:59 PM Look folks, find it as interesting as you want, but I happen to know for a fact that Brian Cadwell's wife worked extra hours to save the money to throw a birthday party for Brian.  You should all be ashamed of yourselves!  You go off half-cocked and less than half informed with a holier than thou attitude.  Grow up and get a life!  Keep spewing your venom.  It only goes to prove how ignorant of the facts that you actually are.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:27 AM Hey BigGuy, the one who just moved here and said could someone please explain what's going on -what should you think? Now you know that Brian Cadwell's wife worked overtime to pay for a birthday party for him. But - was it the party at the Dreamland Bar???? And how do you -who just moved here 6 months ago- know that? Did you read her minutes or something? I have no vemon to spew and please don't expect me to be holier than thou, it's just that me thinks thou doest protest too much.
downrighthonest	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:41 AM I find it interesting that it took several weeks for anyone to come up with such a  story of  wifely tenderness - I would have thought that that one would have been immediately shouted from the rooftops!   Do you really expects us to believe that Cadwell's wife footed the bill for a bash which was by invite only to members of the Fire Dept. and retired members of the FD and selected friends?  And why would she exclude the Perreault's, Frog with 37 years of service?  Surely she would have invited family, & fellow Cops from MTU, and friends from the Hancock City Council, and his Brother from the Sheriff Dept. etc, etc.   Sorry BigGuy - before you float a believable one, you are going to have to think it through a lot more clearly  than that!   And ain't it amazing that the President of the FOUNDATION finally decided it was time to speak out?  How generous of him. I can hardly wait to see the product!  I'm sure he has given the Twp Board complete oversight into their financial manipulations
BigGuy	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:42 AM Yes, his wife had the party at the Dreamland on October 21, his birthday was on October 20.  How I know that is MY business, not yours.  You are truly pathetic.  Probably just jealous that you were not invited.  LOL!!!!
BigGuy	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 12:46 AM DownrighPathetic,   Family, fellow cops, and others were there.  Nice try dumbsss.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:15 AM Yes, his wife had the party at the Dreamland on October 21, his birthday was on October 20. How I know that is MY business, not yours. You are truly pathetic. Probably just jealous that you were not invited. LOL!!!! I pasted BigGuy's speach here to look at while I LOL as they say in cyberville. I don't know why these illiterate bigots always want to respond to MY postings. What is it for? Contrast? I only find their mindlessness humerous and harbor no ill will against any of them. I have no venom that I spew. Why say that, unless it is BigGuy who spews the venom and wishes to make me spew venom back. But why should I spew venom at him? He's just a dumbsss. That sounds like a tire that hit a sharp bump and sprung a leak, doesn't it? Dumbsss. DUMBssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss. Oops, I'm afraid you've gone flat BeegGoy!
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 6:57 AM downrighthonest: I agree...if the party was paid for by BC's wife, that would have been immediately stated and would have been stated at the TLT meeting. It would have been their strongest "look, they're attacking the guys who save lives" evidence.   However, if it did occur, I would fully expect the event to have been removed from the books by now...before they were FINALLY released to the public.   Birthday party or not........this is all a "pea shooter" attempt to deflect from the fact that The Foundation HAS illegally hidden the books for five years, consistently taken Donations from the public ( "that's OUR money" ....as The Foundation refers to it) and let it sit in the Foundation's bank account.   I am not at all fooled by your attempts to focus on the Birthday party and not the other activity. If you don't know anything about reputable nonprofits.......look it up. One of the most basic premises is open financial statements.   Has The Foundation been open and honest over the years?  NO, they HAVE NOT. That is the issue.   Do you not realize that it is clear how you operate? First you start with crass name calling, then you make up lies (which can be proven to be lies by the way), then you fall silent and the last resort is find some pea shooter to say "see, see, we're right!!" Most of us realize that reputable nonprofits DO NOT operate this way.   Well, if you're right about the birthday party......congratulations but it is a very, very mute point in the scheme of things.   (and, no, I didn't get an invitation either.......do I care?........I don't think so. Sounds a little like third grade to me)
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:16 AM downrighthonest: I'm sure you understand this, but for others I wanted to clarify my last post.   The initial portion was addressed to downrighthonest.......the remainder should have been addressed to those who, for some illogical reason, are focusing on where the evidence of the birthday party came from.   It is amazing to me that folks attacked you, downrighthonest,  for your previous post (7 Feb) regarding the Foundation........rather than focusing on the information. It's not surprising though. And the fact that they focus on a birthday party rather than hidden books, broken laws, unbelievably fat bank accounts tells all. That is where they chose to focus and "it says it all".
birds eye	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:00 AM Big Guy and a few others.....it's obvious we have a few BJFD people or wives posting.  Good, maybe you can shed some light on things. Since you are a non-profit organization applying for and receiving federal grant money, your meetings must be public. What day, time and place do you hold your meetings?  Since your books are now public, and that's a good thing, I would imagine your meetings are too. I hope this simple question is answered.
iceman	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:10 PM Well, well... we have finally admitted to lying. Wonder what else we have lied about?  Would you care to 'fess up now?  I think you like to take tidbits of information and blow them up into larger pieces that are not necessarily all true just for shock factor.  I guess you never learned the lesson of believing none of what you hear and only half of what you see.   The irresponsibility and morally wrong actions of the chief and the foundation members remains unproven. All hearsay so far...
iceman	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:18 PM Well, well... we have finally admitted to a lie... we are making progress. What else have we fabricated? Care to 'fess up now?  I think you take tidbits of information and blow them up for shock factor. Case in point -birthday party for the supervisor -yes, given by the foundation, NO, at the dreamland, yes, in January, NO, etc.  Now, let's move onto the next point... the irresponsible chief and the foundation - the proof remains unseen - still hearsay as far as I can tell.
iceman	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:20 PM sorry - timed out and lost the post - I thought.
JRussell	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:25 PM Iceman:   Lied about what?   Do you not understand the hypotheical "if" form of debate?   The birthday party is not as relevant as the other facts...which are facts and are proven.   Your camplacency with hidden records (both tax records and Foundation Financial records) is amazing.   What logic do you apply to this being an acceptable way to operate?   Let's just say I did lie..(this is a hypothetical form of debate...not an admission...so don't go off saying "see, see!!")....would it then make it OK for the Chief to have hidden Foundation records? No, I'd say not and most intelligent people would say, who really cares about the party. That's a hypotheical......it is neither an admission nor a denial.   Many people thought their donations were going to the Bootjack Fire Department....and they were not. That is OK with you?
iceman	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:37 PM The donations did go to the Bootjack Fire and Rescue Foundation. People who make donations (not for BBQ's or bake sales) are more than happy to do this seeing it is a 501c3 - and they get a tax writeoff. If you view the records of the foundation that I saw at the twp office,  you will see the money is used for fire/rescue supplies, equipment etc.   There are obviously administrative costs that associated with such things... accountants, lawyers etc. Can you prove it went other places? Is there another set of books you are privy to? That is my question.
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:39 PM "Let's just say I did lie.."????   Honestly, don't you think that intimating abuse of funds for a birthday party is harmful?  I'm sure that if Mr. Cadwell cared to shout from the rooftops that his hard-working wife threw a birthday party for him, he'd have done so.  If he's like most people, I doubt he'd think his birthday party would matter to anyone but his friends and family.   To say the 'birthday party is not as relevant as the other 'facts' ' is too little too late.  You've already raised doubt and potentially slandered both Mr. Cadwell and Mr. Sarazin.    This cannot be excused by an understanding of the hypothetical "if" form of debate....especially in a public forum.    Stick to the facts.
iceman	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 1:45 PM I don't believe the foundation hid anything. As has been posted many times here, you can find the tax returns on the internet.  What else do you want to see???? Do you want a list of those that donated and how much they donated. Do you want an account of how much they pay to put on their chicken BBQ every year versus how much they charge for the tickets??? What exactly are you looking for here?  The tax returns show the facts and if the facts are what you are interested in... then they are there, available for viewing any time.  I believe you are interested changing the social/community standing of certain individuals and that is all.
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 2:13 PM Iceman, I think you're correct.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 3:30 PM iceman, enquirer, et alia: Again I find it interesting what is missing from your arguement. You now act like martyrs. Again with the paranoia. Shouting from the rooftops hm? I notice you wont categorically state that the foundation didn't pay for a party at the Dreamland -not a birthday party for Cadwell,but another one, hm? Because wouldn't it be embarrassing for you who yell liar from the rooftops to be proven to be the liars? And I have not seen you deny that money from the foundation was diverted to the LL school band. What else was it used for? You have dogged it and dodged it all this time and now you have been forced to disclose some information by public pressure so don't try the martyrship route on us.
ToddSarazin	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:20 PM     Fact: Amanda Cadwell paid for Brians Birthday party(There were several fireman at this party but had nothing to do with politics are the foundation) My wife and neice both work with Mandy at MTU and are very good friends ,     Fact: The foundation paid for the Christmas Party at the Dreamland! ( The womens auxilary was in charge of where,when and what was for dinner. People where responsable for there own drinks)       As for foundation information you need to request information from the foundation( Not through this site but try directly to the foundatation)   P.S these are facts  take it are leave it
justasking	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:21 PM How much was given to the band? This keeps getting brought up with the party, which we know was not based on facts.
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 4:29 PM whaddup, you seem to have an axe to grind with someone.  I'd suggest you do it in one of a couple of ways: As Mr. Sarazin pointed out, request information from the foundation Attend the township board meetings, if you have issues, suggest agenda items via your commissioner Dare I say, run for office?? Your perpetuation of rumor and innuendo sans facts does nothing to address and fix issues that actually may be legitimate...tho it's hard to tell from your ramblings exactly what they are.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 5:46 PM Enquirer- just 9 minutes before you posted that I perpetuate rumor and innuendo, Todd Sarazin came on and stated that indeed the foundation had paid for a party at Dreamland - party-goers responsible for their own drinks. So, it's not a rumor is it? I don't have any ax to grind toward anyone but would like to see you own up instead of attacking posters and skirting issues. We know about the party and we know about the money diverted to the band and what else is there that hasn't been revealed yet? Fess up! one of your number recently said. Fess up!
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 6:23 PM No attack intended.    I'm merely posting better (and more productive) ways to address your concerns.  One of my number?  You are making wild assumptions, and I have nothing to 'fess' up to.   If a 'party' in your eyes is money spent for dinner and is evidence of wrongdoing, I fear that no explaination will satisfy you.  I read Mr. Sarazin's posting.  It's a far reach from your assertion re: Mr. Cadwell's party to then say there's 'proof' the Foundation did anything wrong.  I'm thinking that dinner for a group of people who volunteer their time is small price to pay for a holiday 'thank you'.   Furthermore, money 'diverted' to a High School Band (????) is civic support to many.  There's no Enron here, Mr. Whut.  Again, request your proof of nefarious 'diversion' (as opposed to, maybe, a DONATION) and then set out to prove that the band is somehow hiding money for the foundation, if that's what you're getting at.   All I'm saying is, the facts are available to you.  Get them.
cooker	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:06 PM Big Guy,   Do your children use the same foul language you do?  Shame on you.
justasking	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:57 PM So Watzup, you didn't get away with your lies about the party, now your saying the foundation  has  diverted money  to the band.  Where did you get this  from?
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:23 PM justasking: if you will read the recent posts you will see; there was a party paid for by the foundation at Dreamland - not a rumor, not a lie- it has been admitted. Do you want to deny that the foundation gave money to the LL school band now???
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:31 PM Still wildly touting a party, whuddup?  Shame on you.   What, if anything, is wrong with a donation to a band?  And where, by the way, has anyone stated that this happened?   That axe is getting bigger, buddy.  Chill.
downrighthonest	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:40 PM From the newspaper pal - the rag that thrills you so . Just read it!! The account of the FOUNDATION DONATION to both the Band trip and th Non-acloholic party were in there. Read it and weep!   You can take all your fund-raisers for the Bootjack Fire and Rescue DEPARTMENT? FOUNDATION? FIRST RESPONDERS?AUXILLIARY? all those "Trust Us" Outfits and forget them. The TLT residents should forget ever giving any money again -  go back and look at their abundance of funds, both public & secret; they could never use another dime. (Except to reward themselves for what they consider wonderous work)   By the by - "Tax Write Off" was mentioned too.  Don't forget - we don't get any receipts - which is what is what the Feds require, plus donations can only be a small percentage of your annual income, etc. Is that what Nara got for donating the Hovercraft? A $28,000.00 write-off? Why doesn't the FOUNDATION make that info public?   It wouldn't float 'cause Sarazin wants to replace Nara's father, the founder of the BJVFD, in history. He wants Firemen, twenty years from now to discuss what a great chief Sarazin was, just like we used to speak of Bill Nara.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:16 PM Enquirer Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 9:31 PM Still wildly touting a party, whuddup? Shame on you. What, if anything, is wrong with a donation to a band? And where, by the way, has anyone stated that this happened? That axe is getting bigger, buddy. Chill. Enquirer, you are just a tad bit slow on the uptake aren't you? That's not an ax that's getting bigger, it's my grin! What's wrong with using money donated for one purpose for another unrelated purpose? It's not ethical and once you go there, where does it stop? Especially when you refer to it as being YOUR MONEY.
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Friday, February 17, 2006 10:37 PM Again, Gentlemen, wild assertions do not a scandal make.  I may be slow on the uptake (tho' where you get that, I'm not sure...), but again, you've proven nothing either unethical or illegal.    The leap to 'where does it stop' is a bit X-Files, don't you think?  I'm still thinking that your motives are not that of uncovering any sort of ethical issue, but of slandering people and hurting social standing.   So, Whud, and TruthSeeker, seek other avenues to address your issues and concerns.  The Anonymity of this forum is not the best way to address issues.  Gathering facts, knowing laws and addressing your township board in a formal manner are the way to go.  That's politics, Kids.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:01 AM I don't read the Enquirer or watch the Xfiles so your comments mean nothing to me. Of course you aren't sure where I get that you are slow on the up-take, because you are in fact slow on the up-take. These are not wild assertions anymore and if you read the last few posts over slowly a couple of times, maybe it will dawn on you, sweetie. I hope one doesn't need a law degree to smell when something is unethical.
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:26 AM So that's how you debate?  You insult whomever disagrees with you?   No, "Sweetie" there's nothing unethical here.  Sorry.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 9:49 AM Hey sweetheart, don't mean to insult you. So,the way you debate is to just keep insisting that there's nothing unethical about taking donations from people under the pretext that the money donated is for the purpose of fighting fires and rescuing people in distress and then giving that money to a school band and putting on a party at a bar owned by the leader's family? If that's all, then we are done, right? I say yes and you say no. Bye bye
Enquirer	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 7:05 PM Such logic.  I say you need to go to the source and address your concerns in a more effective manner.   I'm done.
downrighthonest	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Saturday, February 18, 2006 8:23 PM Enquirer - I refer you to my post Feb 12, 1008pm. Your procedure for debate fits right in with my observation of the tactics practiced by Sarazin & backers, as devolved by  the Nazi Party, expressly their Propaganda Minister Goebels; when you are cornered just keep repeating the big lie until it becomes truth (works especially well on the uninformed citizens)   You practice your craft of deception & deviation well
ladylove	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:55 AM Just because they use debating techniques developed by the Nazis does not make THEM Nazis!
downrighthonest	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 4:35 PM Agreed; did not intend to suggest such a thing.  Simply to draw attention to a possible source of tactics learned from history.  Dankeschune.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Monday, February 20, 2006 10:52 PM Regardless, it is patently clear that the Sarizan side uses that technique of blatantly insisting that whatever they say is the truth even after it has been proven to be false. Let me repeat that -proven to be false. Proven to be false. PROVEN TO BE FALSE!
Yogi	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 8:46 AM You mean like you and JR harping on and on about the 75 cent land tax, The chief was fired from the State Police for telling lies, The Cadwell birtday party, and a host of other lies from the two of you? You seem very familiar with this tactic your selves.
Wutzup	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:10 AM Hi Yogi! Actually, the 75 cent tax is pretty well established as fact. I admit I threw that out as a question to engage snowshoe in conversation, but I really would like to know why the State Police let him go, and nobody answers that one. I did not start the Cadwell birthday link to a party thrown by the foundation at the Dreamland Bar but it finally dawned on me that there was no connection and then the way Todd Sarazin came on and posted the facts was a breath of fresh air. I don't think you can rightly call JR a liar. There's a quality of straight talking and factualness about those postings. I miss seeing them. JR you talk and I'll shut up.
ToddSarazin	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 5:30 PM Watzup       To answer your question on why Dan doesn't work for the State Police anymore is he is retired he was given a full retirement about a year early due to a back injury he recieved on the Job. He is simply retired no social security disability just plain old retired like anyother officer that put in 25 years.(he worked 24)
downrighthonest	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:09 PM Uh Huh! I believe you where a thousand wouldn't!!!
ToddSarazin	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:51 AM Look Wutzup asked a question I gave the answer. Just because you don't like the answer is no reason to get snippy. I have attacked no one on this site. I see no winners in this. someone ask's a question if nobody answers they are hidding something if you answer your lying. whats the point?
cooker	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:09 AM Todd, It's refreshing to have someone answer a question or two directly and without calling people names. What was the point in telling us that your wife and niece work with "Mandy?" If it was proof that someone can verify that she had to work overtime to pay for her husband's party, I suggest that HOW she paid for it is no one's business. I will say, from seeing the crowd myself, that it was one of the biggest parties I have ever seen. It's great that she could afford it, even if it took overtime. Will you please tell us who is the head of the Foundation, Todd?  You suggest addresssing concerns directly to them and I agree with that but have no idea who the officers are.  Is the Chief of the fire dept. also the Pres. of the Foundation?
ToddSarazin	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:48 PM Dan Was reelected President about 2 weeks ago. And I will repeat again asking for information from the foundation needs to be sent to the foundation not through this web site.   P.S I haven't  seen what was presented at the last township but from what I hear it will answer some of your questions
ToddSarazin	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:50 PM Sorry that should say last township meeting
cooker	Torch Lake Township Meeting Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 2:09 PM Contacting the Foundation directly is exactly what I want to do.  Now we know who the president is but does the group have an address or do we write Dannie at home?
JRussell	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:51 PM   In response to a couple of previous posts: I really was not aware that The Chief had any “social position”, as a previous poster claimed that this was an attempt to upset his “social position.”  A man who stands and snickers at cohorts jumping up and down outside of a meeting doesn’t garner a great deal of respect from me and therefore would not be looked at as having a high “social standing.”  I said it before…imagine a Doctor, lawyer or school teacher behaving in such a manner…it does affect how one looks at them in their professional capacity. And let's face it. This is Bootjack folks...if someone did have a "social position"..I'd have to say 'big deal'.   All information I have listed comes from the public forum. I have not “lied” about anything. I see very, very large problems……don’t you?  I am simply addressing the problems and actions, not individuals.   The only exception to which is the birthday party, which came from a previous post. I believe I referenced the party in a hypothetical sense only, but if not, I was wrong. (yes, you can shout “wrong, wrong” if that makes you feel better). However, if the Gazette ad was right, The Foundation gave money to other nonprofits…to my taste, that is not right and the same point is made. As I’ve said in previous posts, these donations are not as large a problem as the others but are simply a symptom of the overall “management” or lack thereof. So, attacking this point really is getting out a pea shooter.   If The Chief had conducted himself in a forthright manner, answered questions, never hid the financial records he would have a lot more respect and a lot less questions. When one behaves in this manner, everything is questioned.   A few of the behaviors that lead to this: The fact that the 990’s are available on the internet is a moot point. The head of The Foundation is required by Michigan State Law and IRS Federal code to provide 990’s. Yes, this is breaking the law.  The Chief refused to provide any information, including Articles of Incorporation or officers, when publicly asked. He stated, “it’s a private organization”. Now, you can play games and say ‘it wasn’t requested in writing….etc” However, any REPUTABLE nonprofit will WILLINGLY and OPENLY provide this information. Mr. Sarazin chose to operate otherwise. I’m glad he has now corrected his behavior, but one must question why he ever wanted to operate a nonprofit in this manner.   He, and others, stated that the prior Board “wouldn’t let the Firemen use the Hovercraft.”  That was not true, and they (the chief, Foundation folks et al) knew it. Under advisement of the TLT attorney, TLT Board could not sign the contract presented by the Foundation.  Perhaps the Chief thinks its ok to sign a contract against legal advice, but a small amount of common sense will tell you it is not, and it also violates a small thing called fiduciary responsibility.   The Hovercraft lie was spread……and the holdup was entirely the fault of The Foundation itself, and the folks “managing” The Foundation. In fact, one of the current board members wrote a letter to the Editor last Spring stating that the TLT Board wouldn’t let them use the Hovercraft. Clearly, this was not true.   Additionally, under the continued hiding of financial records….The Foundation has consistently maintained an end of the year balance of $20,000. As I said before, this is fiscally irresponsible.   And lastly, as stated in prior posts here and as evidenced by behavior, it is clear that The Foundation considers the donations as “their money.”  It is money donated by the community to which they are entrusted. It is not “their” money. It is, in my opinion, unethical and irresponsible to handle nonprofit funds in such a manner.  Yes, they worked hard to get the donations. However, the donors worked hard to earn the money and they entrusted it to The Foundation.   As important as the above-noted issues, I do consider The Chief’s social behavior one of his largest weaknesses. I doubt that the public behavior of his crew and himself would garner much respect from contemporaries. I have never seen a professional or volunteer Fire Department act in such a manner and it is a shame that their technical skills are overshadowed by their ridiculous behavior. I don’t hold people in high regard who find the hooting, hollering and jumping up and down amusing.   Now, with all of these facts, does it sound to you like I am trying to dethrone someone from their “social position” I don’t think so. It’s rather obvious that I have a problem with fiscal irresponsibility, not operating IAW the law and not telling the truth?
birds eye	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:43 AM     Firstly, I am glad we are back on track and not just throwing mud back and forth.  Secondly, Mr. Sarazin, thank you for being forthright and clarifying the Great Birthday Party Debate. Thirdly, please give some thought to this quote from an article;   "It's a stern reminder that public service is a position of trust."
iceman	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:40 AM Why is it "fiscally irresponsible" to maintain a balance of $20,000???  We should be happy they maintain a balance "for a rainy day" perhaps? As has been mentioned here before, the foundation pays for the first responder truck that was purchased a few years back - all by themselves. This includes a rather hefty loan payment of several thousands of dollars per year. So are you suggesting it would be fiscally responsible to deplete their entire bank account year after year in anticipation of donations for the next year that may or may not happen. The fact remains the foundation has a fiscal RESPONSIBILITY to repay the loan on the truck - with or without the yearly donations/fundraisers.  What if all of a sudden the foundation were to stop raising money, or the economy tanked and people didn't open their checkbooks any more... who would pay off the loan then? I would maintain they are being very fiscally and morally responsible for the commitment they made to pay for this equipment themselves.
birds eye	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:41 PM Good point, Iceman....but if you have that much money in an account, why not pay down the loan? And WHY on earth, if that is the basis for having so much money in a rainy day fund, did you donate to a band group??  Is that fiscally responsible when you have a truck to pay for? That's a whole other post for me which I will do at another time. This being a philanthropic group while I thought I was donating to our fire dept. is totally off base. Maybe you should think about the Women's Aux. doing the philanthropic stuff....really. Once the snickers settle down, give it some thought! There is room for donating, but not with fire dept. money!
iceman	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:05 PM Those are questions I can't answer, because I am not in the inner circle where the foundation is concerned. I don't know the terms of the loan - all I know is the foundation gives the money to the township who then in turn makes the payment. I am not sure if they pay extra, if they are permitted to pay extra etc.  Sometimes loans have stipulations on paying them off early, granted not usually, but you never know. As far as the donation to the band goes, I don't know anything about that either - I cannot tell you if it did or did not happen, where the money came from or anything like that.  Here is some other food for thought though... how do we know the money didn't come from the auxiliary - which by the way is a totally seperate entity from the foundation.  If there was a blurb in the paper about it, perhaps the sources were confused and the money actually came from the auxiliary and not the foundation.  Like I said, I don't know for sure.  Have you had the opportunity to view the information at the twp hall on what the foundation has paid for? I have, and the list is quite impressive.  The things they have acquired for the safety of the public are things the township would never be able to provide themselves.  That is aside from the training requirements for the individuals involved in the department - both firemen and first responders. I am pretty sure the classes and materials (books etc) are quite pricey.  If the foundation could not cover the costs and the individual had to themselves, I don't think there would be as many dedicated individuals to this cause. It is one thing to donate your time to the training, but if it is going to cost you a bunch of money on top of it... why would you do it?  There aren't many who would. I don't know what the exact cost is, but I know it has been brought up several times at the twp meetings that the "foundation paid for the necessary classes/materials for the training". How many other fire departments can do this?  I would like it acknowledged that besides the donation to the band (if it indeed happened), this group has been very responsible with the funds entrusted to them.  I think that there are still a great number of individuals who will continue to support the foundation.
BeNice	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2006 3:08 PM Is there a law out there somewhere that states a non-profit foundation can't donate money back to another part of the community? I've been searching and can't seem to find one. I know legion clubs and VFW's donate money to all sorts of non veteran functions. Are they 501.3c's too? Is it unethical for them to donate monies to support school functions? Can someone tell me where I can find this Info.
vertatem	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:27 PM Icemn, you & your buds are all blowing smoke. yer trying to cover for sarazin & his bro.You say your not on the inside, then you say things that only an insider could know. It dont take a mental giant to figure out that collecting money for what people think is the fire department and then putting it in to a secret slush fund for the foundations is dishonest no matter how you try to smooth and white wash it over. It was crooked to do and when everybody finally figures it out & danny knows the heat is on he  walksin like he always does looks at the sealing and makes his big speech about all the great things he and his boys do.  Ive seen there is always one or two smaller things skiped over,left out, brushed aside, which happen to be the glue that keeps the wood together. And his sheep all sit and say things like right on cause they are afraid of him an to say anything against what he says its gonna be. Theyre afraid of each other two cause you open your mouth you and your wife get cut off real quick just like they did to Frog and Marleen. And your busness goes down the drain two. I ask Tod why don't danny speak for himself about the SP or the donataions to the school when he was vp of the school board and president of the secret foundations. You said he was just elected pres of the foundations last week. It had to be for the fifth time,cause he loved to tell anyody that would listen that he was the man! I say liar liar yer pants are on fire. Dan was pres when the secret foundation was formed 5 years ago, and I'll bet my paycheck hes been every since. Cause nobody would dare go against him. Your just trying to make a crooked line straight and fool us all. Last thing.  If the foundations are so great, and Dan is so honest, and is coming clean so good, why dont the foundations transfer all that money into the bank account the township has had for them for 20years?  They buy all the same toys just like there doing except they couldn'y give any money to the kids for the trip and party and do his nepotism thing.  The crooked politicians have all been swept from office like danny arrainged and his puppet is now the boss. Why dont the foundations transfer the title for the hoovercraft to the twp board which held the title to the other one? What a song & dance answer we'll get to this one.
onewhocares	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:33 AM Vertatem,    Go back and read Todd Sarazin's post.  He said Dan was REelected.  I realize anyone can make a mistake when reading something,  but remember a word or two or even a letter or two can give something a different meaning--like the difference between elected and reelected.    Maybe we should all read things over a time or two before we start jumping to conclusions or making accusations.    Also, please don't hint at something without explaining it and proving  it.  For example, what did you mean when you referred to Frog and Marleen and then said "and your business goes down the drain too"?    I've asked several questions before and never really received an answer.  I hope you, Vertatem, will be different and answer the question I asked in the paragraph before this.
BeNice	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 27, 2006 10:03 AM WOW! Almost three days and nobody is posting. Did some of the hot air get let out of ya or what?
birds eye	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 27, 2006 1:10 PM BeNice...no hot air to let out here.  Am waiting to hear what your "research" turns up since you questioned the legality of a fire dept. funding non-fire related events with fire dept. funds. At the very least, I think it's unethical and it sounds like you do too. Even Inceman pitched in about all the financial commitments the Dept. has. I agree and all the more reason to keep the designated fire fighting funds within the dept. Hey, we're making some progress here!
cooker	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 27, 2006 3:26 PM BeNice, On the 23rd you posed some interesting points.  The problem I have with the Foundation giving money to ANY other program is that when we donate to the Fire Dept. or Foundation it is expected to go for their specific work.  When we donate to the Cancer Foundation we expect every penny to go for cancer research and its related needs.  We certainly don't expect the Cancer Foundation to donate to a band trip or any other fund.  Money given to the Friends of the Library is all to be used for library needs.  If I want to donate to the high school band trip, I can do it directly.  All they have to do is ask.  The BJ Foundation doesn't need to donate for me.  It looks strange that the vp of the school board is also the pres. of the Foundation.  Not a wise move for Dannie to make.
downrighthonest	Keweenaw Viewpoints Posted: Monday, February 27, 2006 11:03 PM BeNice You are right - we have been greeted by a thundering silence. >Perhaps, just perhaps, after all the angst, snide remarks, flim-flam cover stories for what was done and why, we have reached that moment in time when all good men should acknowledge that it is now time to come together. It takes a man of stature, a real leader, to recognize when he has made a mistake and that it is with- in his control to set a new healing course.  Do we have one in Torch Lake Township? Perhaps, just perhaps, in his headlong rush to satisfy his massive ego Danny has finally realized that by his many, many slights-of-hand he has driven our community apart -- ripped it assunder -- pitting neighbor against neighbor, husband against wife, brother against sister. Is it possible that he might rise to this occassion and recognize that in the long run, confrontation begets confrontation, and that he has within his grasp the ability, the opportunity, to bring peace and harmony to our Township? Perhaps, just perhaps, he could acknowledge that removal by the Twp Board of Review of improper Homesteading after all these years on the gravy train was not a personal injustice (nor vendetta).  After all, shouldn't a member of the School Board wish to ensure that the schools are receiving all the tax monies due them, and especially that he is paying his fair share?     Perhaps, just perhaps, we could forget the spurious arguments Danny set forth to establish the Foundation. Over twenty years ago the Twp Board established a bank account for both the Hubbell and Bootjack Fire Departments, in compliance with Sate Law. Nobody in their right mind believes that any members of the Twp Board, at any time, planned to mis-appropriate funds placed in the Bootjack Fire Department Bank Account, as Danny claimed. The Twp Board holds Title to all the equipment of both Fire Depts. Does anybody really believe that if the Twp Board held the Title to the new Hovercraft they might unilaterally sell this piece of  fire equipment, as Danny claims?  After all, how many years did the Twp hold the Title for the old hovercraft without incident?  Does anybody really believe that money raised for fire equipment by the Foundation could not have been similarly raised and spent by the Fire Department itself under the over-sight of the Twp. Board? I believe Vertatem hit the nail right on the head when he suggested that Sarazin and his secret Board place all the funds of the Foundation into the legitimate Fire Department Account so that its use may be properly overseen by the Twp Board on behalf of all the Twp Taxpayers; that these secretive people acknowledge that there is no legitimate need for a "Foundation" to fund the Fire Department and that they repeal the Foundation Charter. (If they really feal strongly that a charitable foundation is suitable for the community, then re-charter one under some more suitable, publicly less confusing name.) The reader can see from my past posts that the Bootjack Fire Department is not lacking and will not be lacking in funds or equipment for many years to come, thanks to the organizational abilities of Chief Sarazin.  Now, it is one thing to be "Chief"  because one is a good organizer; it is another to be called "Chief" because one is a real leader of men. Step up to the plate Danny!  Show you have what its takes! Prove to yourself & to us that you deserve the title of Chief!  Heal the Community!